| | Legalese: The Small Printing | |
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Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: Legalese: The Small Printing Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:27 pm | |
| The following text was copied and pasted directly from the only source I could find it using Google-fu. If you know of a more official source or a more up-to-date release, please let us know. Don't "suggest" I contact WW themselves... that's on my to-do list, lol. =) General Source: The Carpe Noctem website.* Main Source: The Carpe Noctem Reference Guide: White Wolf Fan-Site Guidelines - Quote :
- Dark Pack - Officially Sanctioned White Wolf Fan Sites and Legal Notices on Web Usage
White Wolf knows that our fans like to support our games and products. We recognize that our fans enjoy expressing themselves creatively and enthusiastically about our products and games with one another. We encourage and appreciate greatly our fans' dedication, time, energy, and creativity when building and maintaining "fansites", or fan projects. However, we would also like for our fans to respect our rights as the owners and the creators of the intellectual properties, so here is the Dark Pack. These are GENERAL guidelines to our fans to help them build their fansites and create fan projects. These guidelines will help give you an idea of what is and is not appropriate.
How the Dark Pack Works!
The dynamic script of the Dark Pack fansites is designed to list the links to sites sharing a common interest in the World of Darkness, Aberrant, Trinity, Exalted, Scion, and anything White Wolf in general. This way everyone has a fair chance to get visitors. When following the Dark Pack links, you can click on the official logo on any page to return to the list. If you cannot for any reason, let us know where it happened.
The rules for fan projects are essentially to answer all of those burning questions that our fans have about fan projects. Everything from school projects to supplements and content to videos to using names and ideas for new products. We want to answer those burning questions to the best of our abilities, so you don't have to search the world over for them. Essentially, Dark Pack will give you an idea of what's okay but it's not meant to give you legal advice or explain trademark and/or copyright laws. You'll have to seek legal counsel or do a little research to understand trademark and/or copyright laws.
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White Wolf trademarked and copyrighted material may be used in the presentation of standard nonprofit, nonrevenue generating HTML World Wide Web Pages, non-graphical MUSHes, MUDs, MOOs, IRC and all similar Chat environments as per the Requirements and Restrictions listed below. If, for some reason, you do not wish to participate in Dark Pack, please understand and acknowledge that you and your site must still fulfill all of the other requirements listed on this page. The same goes for fan projects. They must be nonprofit and nonrevenue producing. No money. You cannot make any kind of money off of White Wolf intellectual property.
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The Requirements
You must adhere to the requirements to be permissible to use any of White Wolf and White Wolf related materials, names, logos, and etc.. You cannot violate any of the Restrictions listed below. Most importantly, you must announce to people at the earliest opportunity that the materials you are using on your site are protected by legal copyright and trademark laws. This means you must post the appropriate code listed below on the very first page of your website where someone sees any material that uses White Wolf intellectual property, whether it is a name, logo, piece of artwork, graphic, content, or an excerpt are protected intellectual properties. Usually, this means your home page of your fansite, but if you have a site that only has a small section dedicated to White Wolf material and the rest of the site is unrelated to White Wolf, you may post this code on the first page of that particular section.
Please include this code for fansites:
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This code MUST appear on the first page of the website/section where any White Wolf materials appear. It is a requirement for fair use. If you repost any of our properties without our copyright, you are intentionally violating our Restrictions. It is stealing. Essentially, you are either sanctioned or do not have our permission, period. In recognition of your hard work and adherence to our requirements, we will place a link to your site in the White Wolf Dark Pack list of officially sanctioned sites. This will get you more visitors, help you make contacts, and be an edgy online badge to brag to your friends about.
If, for some reason, you do not wish to have your site listed in Dark Pack community, but you'd still like to create a fansite, you must still adhere to the requirements and restrictions and include this code on the appropriate pages instead of the Dark Pack code:
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Please keep in mind that if you plan to use material or art that does not belong to White Wolf but wish to include it in the section or site with White Wolf stuff, then you still must adhere to the appropriate guidelines and laws concerning that material as well. This means you must be mindful of including other people's copyright text/code if you plan to use their materials and/or art in the same section or site as our stuff. If you do not, you will be misleading people to believe that that material belongs to us as well, and that's not OK.
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You must list our copyright on your homepage. © [year] CCP hf. All rights reserved. Reproduction without the written permission of the publisher is expressly forbidden, except for the purposes of reviews, and for blank character sheets, which may be reproduced for personal use only. White Wolf and XX are registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved. XX, XX, XX and XX are trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved. All characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by CCP hf.
Please insert the book/line and/or the intellectual property you are using for your site or project where the "XX" are. We know that many of our fans use multiple lines or different intellectual properties of White Wolf's and we want you to know you still have to acknowledge and credit those lines appropriately.
Please keep in mind that anything that is based on, derived or taken from our works is still owned by us. For instance, if you make a character from clan Gangrel, remember that is not your character and could never be used without our permission. If you make a clan logo that has a clan symbol as a portion of it, you could never publish that piece of art without our permission. Even without this copyright on your home page, that law still applies, so make it easy for both of us and post it.
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White Wolf, Inc. reserves the right to withdraw these usage rights at any time with no prior notification.
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Downloads from our website are for personal use ONLY. You do not have permission to repost, propagate, or distribute these downloads from our site. If you wish to be helpful, then direct others to the downloads by providing a link to the appropriate pages. Many downloads can be found at http://www.white-wolf.com/downloads.php, and many other sections of our site offer even more downloads. If you think a download is useful, then respect the wishes of those who created it and provide a link to it rather than stealing it.
Also, please don't post our entire books for PDF download either. Even if it is free, it doesn't make it okay. Once again, you are giving our hard work away for free. Even if it is the old World of Darkness, we did not abandon it or forget or forfeit our rights to it.
Be creative and have fun with our ideas but always remember to be respectful of our rights as the copyright and/or trademark owners.
White Wolf | CCP North America Inc. reserves the right to remove sections and/or withdraw these usage rights at any time without prior notice. We also reserve the right to exercise our discretion in regards to what is and what is not appropriate for fansites and these guidelines are subject to change according to our discretion.
Website Terms of Use
By clicking the "I Agree" link below and registering your fansite with the Dark Pack, you are agreeing to abide by these terms of service.
* Carpe Noctem is not currently associated with Grey Jackal Fan-Supplements. | |
| | | Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: Taking the Onyx Path to the Abyss and Beyond Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:06 pm | |
| In addition to the above guidelines, there is also this avenue... we could take the Onyx Path. The Onyx Path apparently has guidelines for submissions from fans for ideas of their own. - Submission Guidelines:
If you have an original concept that you would like to submit, here is the process for submission. But first, keep these notes in mind: All unsolicited material sent to us must (MUST) also include a Disclosure Form. If there is not a Disclosure Form submitted with the work, it will be shredded immediately, unread. It must be physically signed, or the PDF can be digitally signed using Adobe ID. You can download a Disclosure Form here. Please do not send us manuscripts of your proposed book or game. A short proposal (3-10 pages) will suffice. Please be professional when submitting your work. This means: type it up neatly and present only the information that pertains to your submission. We do not read or accept handwritten material. Send your material to writingsubmissions@theonyxpath.com (if this address doesn’t work, use richt@theonyxpath.com). Do not forget to include the disclosure form. We do not accept submissions via physical mail. No exceptions. The Onyx Path staff will review the material. If you’ve followed the instructions and the idea has merit, we’ll contact you. Following up with us will not yield faster results. If we accept your proposal, we will work with you into turning your idea into a finished product. If your proposal is not accepted, do not be discouraged. Keep sending us your ideas; hopefully you’ll send us one that sticks. Good luck!
Also apparently, neither Realms of Darkness: The Guide to Abyss Mysticism, nor Little White Lies of the Tal'Mahe'Ra meet these requirements. For more details, below is my conversation with Dan about his experience with submitting his idea, reprinted with permission. - Dan's Disappointment, aka Fucking Heartbreaking:
(10:56:34 PM) Daniel Lanman: I managed to get a hold of Sven Skoog who wrote Clanbook Baali, Book of the Weaver and wrote up Izhm, Elimilech, Kufur am Haru, and Dracula for Children of the Night. (10:56:48 PM) Daniel Lanman: He's been incredibly helpful and is guiding me on it. (10:57:03 PM) gattison@gmail.com: when does thegorup get to see the book? I put my .odt files up on Googledocs so our volunteer editor could get to work. what about GoogleDocs for you? (10:57:24 PM) Daniel Lanman: I'm focusing more on telling a story, rather than a collection/encyclopedia. (10:57:54 PM) gattison@gmail.com: so that means nobody gets to see the book? lol (10:58:25 PM) Daniel Lanman: When Sven and I are done, and Steph does the Art I'll send it to you for formatting, as I've got two editors right now (10:59:24 PM) Daniel Lanman: Well... I did send it off to WW >_> but I don't think they were very impressed. So my next method is changing to more of a story focus, remaining metaplot neutral, and then re-submitting with Sven's help. (11:00:56 PM) gattison@gmail.com: who'd you send it to at WW? cuz we want to submit the Abyss Guide for review when it's done, as well (11:02:39 PM) Daniel Lanman: I'm doing it as a dialogue piece between an Inquisitor and a Baali. The book has three themes: 1.) The Tale as originally told in Dirty Secrets 2.) the Tale of Little White lies -- Tal as Baali antitribu and Brujah of Carthage at war with Elder Demons and infernalists and keeping the Aralu prisoner. 3.) The ST guide story = The tal is just an egotistical cult, guilty of Hubris and are wiped out. (11:03:19 PM) Daniel Lanman: All three themes will have sidebars that tell people ways they can discredit each concept to work with the one they want. (11:04:06 PM) Daniel Lanman: "ho'd you send it to at WW? cuz we want to submit the Abyss Guide for review when it's done, as well" I sent it to the submissions for Onyx Path, but I want to give you some advice on that, which is one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you. (11:04:27 PM) Daniel Lanman: http://theonyxpath.com/submission-guidelines/(11:05:58 PM) gattison@gmail.com: that.is.awesome. thanks for thank link, seriously (11:06:26 PM) Daniel Lanman: Of course, but we should talk so you don't make the same mistakes i did (11:08:02 PM) gattison@gmail.com: alright. So what advice have you to give? (11:10:21 PM) Daniel Lanman: They don't want to see a completed book. They want an outline of the ideas for the book, why it will be successful, and what the story and themes are. What they don't care about as much currently is new powers/mechanics/rules, or collections of previously published stuff, as they've got those angles covered. Justin is REALLY strict with editing, and he'll likely eliminate virtually everything someone does. What they want to see are intriguing stories that are metaplot neutral = not stories that influence of concretely change the canon. It's a fine line to walk, and hard to do. (11:11:00 PM) Daniel Lanman: *or not of (11:12:34 PM) gattison@gmail.com: Hmm. I dunno, then. We might have to adapt... or worse yet, let somelese else adapt, our idea i order to actually submit it to Onyx Path. (11:12:54 PM) Daniel Lanman: They have a formula now, essentially. They've tried all the angles for book writing in the past and they know what has worked and what hasn't. (11:13:09 PM) gattison@gmail.com: I think we should submit it once as it is to see if it meets copyright laws for fan-products, and then again, seperately, to OP. (11:14:08 PM) Daniel Lanman: My book was shot down because it was similar to Clanbook Tremere = no central theme, or story, and merely a bunch of conflicting "what ifs" that attempted to plug holes in the Canon, and tried to invent new things to do that with. (11:14:52 PM) Daniel Lanman: While leaving more bad questions than good answers (11:15:53 PM) Daniel Lanman: You can do what you want, but dyou won't get feedback unless they want to publish your book. (11:16:33 PM) gattison@gmail.com: okay. Our book is truly metaplot neutral. We have a hundred decent Story ideas scattered everywhere... I dunno. You should relay your experience to the fb page, so we can discuss it there (11:17:22 PM) Daniel Lanman: sure 100 story ideas, just like Clanbook Tremere - but like Clanbook Tremere there's no central story. (11:17:41 PM) Daniel Lanman: It's a hard thing to explain and took Sven a while to make it sink in to me (11:18:08 PM) gattison@gmail.com: no, but I've been pushing for a mini-metaplot behind our book... (11:18:19 PM) gattison@gmail.com: this is a group discussion though... lol (11:18:55 PM) Daniel Lanman: Have to scrap any sort of metaplot, which sucks. You can alude to metaplot, but not develop it. (11:19:13 PM) Daniel Lanman: That's why I chose the angle I did. (11:19:29 PM) Daniel Lanman: It adresses metaplot, while undressing it. (11:19:42 PM) gattison@gmail.com: by mini-metaplot, I meant a self-contained, over-all story that could be peiced together by reading the whole Abyss Guide... nothing to do with WW metaplot (11:20:37 PM) gattison@gmail.com: brb (11:20:47 PM) Daniel Lanman: I know, but it's same thing. Canon metaplot, and new metaplot aren't in the new formula/format. metaplot isn't what I mean by story. (11:22:30 PM) Daniel Lanman: My suggestion is to take a look here at how they built this book: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ghHaqXcWd7NGw0apZwRwObxqGHSK9V6y47F1ke0oiFU/edit(11:22:43 PM) Daniel Lanman: Feel free to copy-paste our convo if you want. (11:27:27 PM) Daniel Lanman: Ok, to but it bluntly, write a fiction piece, and intersperse it with descriptions of the themes (denizens, demographics, organization etc) and let them handle the mechanics and whatnot. (11:28:55 PM) Daniel Lanman: Their submission guidelines are essentially for fiction short story writers who have ideas that can format into new guides. Both you and I approached our books in entirely the opposite direction of what they want and are looking for. (11:29:28 PM) Daniel Lanman: Fucking heartbreaking (11:52:56 PM) gattison@gmail.com: lol (bak). Well, to be honest, I never set my sights on getting published by WW/OP. What I did and still want to do is make the ultimate fan-book ever. and little has changed there. For me anyway, and I think the others involved on the Abyss-book would agree. (12:00:28 AM) Daniel Lanman: I'm of the same opinion, actually, after learning all of this. (12:00:55 AM) Daniel Lanman: I'm focusing on writing a cool book with Sven, getting great art from Steph, and then having you put it in book format.
So, like it says at the end of the conversation above, I personally think that we should stick to our original plan of making the most ultimate fan-supplement/s ever without violating copyright law. If we could work out a way to also submit something to the onyx Path, then I'm all for it, but I don't want to, imho, compromise the integrity of our work so far just to comply with imposed standards. As far the Abyss Guide goes, we have a complete book on our hands, we just need to finish. As far as the Tal-book goes, Dan's keeping track of all that, and with the revision of the Thaumaturgy guide to a new, more Grey Jackal/copyright-friendly method, I would say three solid books that will benefit players, and do not need to conform to any predetermined set of standards (...plus, imagine if we had to limit ourselves by word-count? We'd lose about 80 pages, lol). Not that I want to sound all antiestablishmentarianist or anything, but this is our book, now, and not a book we want them to write for us any more. I would be all for proposing a project that meets the Onyx Path's guidelines and working on that with somebody, especially really good idea, and it could be based on our Abyss guide, but should not replace it. One final note: as to the guidelines to proposed projects, here is a sample of the kinds of things the Onyx Path is looking for. I would love to hear any thoughts anybody has on the subject, even if it's in reference to only one particular project of ours. | |
| | | Anda
Posts : 174 Join date : 2012-06-21 Age : 40 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: Legalese: The Small Printing Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:20 am | |
| For me, I never dreamed or wanted white wolf to take this under their wing (Not that I think they would). It's a fan project and it follows their guidelines for a fan project. Everything that V20 is about is to scrap all history and shit from Classical World of Darkness - just keeping the game and it's structure. A good example of that is that they plan to use the Methuselah Alexander in the modern anarch book, a vampire that died a long time ago at the hands of Qarakh in the Dark Ages. They also chose the city Atlanta do put Alexander in, and if remember it correctly making it Camarilla, and it's history Camarilla - totally ignoring everything we learned about Atlanta in the clannovels and all of the books. And with our project being based upon the totally opposite, honoring what has been written in the past and focusing on it to make this comendium. Without a soild past this book would be nothing. Atleast in my opinion. So no, I wouldn't wanna see it as a submitted Onyx Path-project, it's a salute to CWoD, not V20. My 50 Cents | |
| | | Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: Re: Legalese: The Small Printing Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:39 pm | |
| I agree with Anda. My 50 cents. Now we have a dollar. =)
So, unless somebody wants to work on a conversion to OP standards, the Abyss guide moves forward as originally intended. Awesomely. | |
| | | valismedsen
Posts : 75 Join date : 2012-06-11 Age : 41 Location : Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
| Subject: Re: Legalese: The Small Printing Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:07 pm | |
| Anda, I'm not following Anarch Unbound development. Hearing about Alexander left me surprised, and with mixed feelings. On the one hand, I love him and the stories about his fall and death. On the other, I love him, and would like to see more of the character, even if perhaps to his published story's detriment... I'm not sure.
Also, I think you're being a little harsh on V20. It sure lack many of the setting development of 3rd edition ('metaplot free'), but I don't see it as a spit in the face of such things. But I guess this is apples and oranges.
Thing is, I guess I'm happy either way: if we decide to not make the Abyss Guide 'official', that's fine; but I also must confess I'd be thrilled to actually have something 'official' published.
However, I admit I need to carefully read the information Gattison posted before anything else (and I should have read it before speaking my mind here). | |
| | | Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: Re: Legalese: The Small Printing Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:18 pm | |
| V20 metaplot-hunting is like Abyssa-Mystic-inf-hunting. The information id there, but it's spread out and not the focal point. I mean, we did learn from V20 that the Tal'Mahe'Ra survived, but to what extent is unclear to me still. They aren't totally abandoning canon, but it does seem like they are trying to develop old material before developing new material.
I agree with both of you. V20 makes me happy, I can't lie, but V20 is also not the right venue to publish our thoughts on Abyss Mysticism. We're kind of focusing on everything V20 and Onyx Path don't focus on. | |
| | | Anda
Posts : 174 Join date : 2012-06-21 Age : 40 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: Legalese: The Small Printing Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:40 am | |
| I wouldn't say I'm too harsh on V20, I just criticize this particular decision. I still buy the books and love that White Wolf did V20. But yeah, I'm on the same page as Gattison - We are focusing on everything that V20 and the Onyx Path isn't focusing on. And as a Onyx Path project, everything we have written and drawn would go into the trashcan. They're not looking for finished books and wont consider how many hours, days and months we have put into this project. Yes it would've been awesome to see our book going official, thing is... it wouldn't be our book anymore. | |
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Legalese: The Small Printing | Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:27 pm by Gattison | The following text was copied and pasted directly from the only source I could find it using Google-fu. If you know of a more official source or a more up-to-date release, please let us know. Don't "suggest" I contact WW themselves... that's on my to-do list, lol. =)
General Source: The Carpe Noctem website.*
Main Source: The Carpe Noctem Reference Guide: [url=http://carpenoctem-online.com/wiki/index.php?title=Reference_Guide%3A_WHITE_WOLF_SITE_GUIDELINES]White Wolf Fan-Site …
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Like a Pack of Grey Jackals | Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:16 pm by Gattison | So far we don't have that many friends, but we seem to be steadily expanding, albeit slowly, so hopefully this list will eventually get much bigger. =)
Allies of the Grey Jackals:
Steve Markley's The Howling Void
Echoes of Empires
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Memories: We Were So Young and Stupid... | Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:43 pm by Gattison | This is the original version of our mission statement/greeting/recruitment attempt, posted here for posthumous appreciation, enjoy!
Gattison, valismedsen, and I have decided to combine our abilities and formed 'Grey Jackal Fan Productions'. We’re going to be constructing a compendium, book by book for Vampire. As we complete supplements they’ll be edited and slotted into the greater …
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The Grey Jackal | Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:07 pm by Gattison | Firstly, it all started here, so go ahead and check that out if you actually haven't yet. =)
And, I suppose you're all wondering why I've summoned you...
Welcome, to Grey Jackal Fan-Supplements, a group of creative and enthusiastic fans of the Classic World of Darkness. So far, our members from the boards are valismedsen, Anda, DanielPLanman, Gattison, Drkcv, and Ihatealllife.
We have …
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