| | CHAPTER 2 - Abyss Mysticism: Black Magics | |
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Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: CHAPTER 2 - Abyss Mysticism: Black Magics Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:25 am | |
| First topic message reminder :So I'm doing one of my regular scans through the chapters to see if everything still looks good, and the following ritual caught my eye. Valis originally posted this, but I gave it a run-through, because I don't think he'd mind, and I came to one part that I sort of disagree with. The parts I would like to discuss are in RED. - Releasing the Shadow of the Beast:
Level ??? Ritual This ritual was developed by Abyss mystics of Necromantic bent who drew spiritual connections between a ghost’s Shadow and a vampire’s Beast. These metaphysical phenomena seem to share in common the coalescence of dark appetites, desires and volition of their former human selves into a pseudo-entity that awakens to a sinister existence of its own, after they shed their mortal coil and become a “supernatural.” More deeply felt amongst the departed, who struggle at every moment with the Shadow cast by their own psyches, this experience is one not alien to vampires—although perhaps the Children of Caine have less to fear from their savage Beasts if compared to Wraiths’ sly and malicious Shadow. The mystical principles supporting this ritual lend credence to the theory that the Shadow and the Beast are indeed similar, perhaps coming from the same part of the mind—that which mortal psychoanalysts call the id. Furthermore, inhabitants of the dead lands know there is a direct, even if not fully understood, connection between their Shadows and darkness, both of a physical and spiritual nature. Building upon their knowledge of these same kinds of darkness, Abyss mystics learned to cast their Beast into their bodies’ shadows, animating a spiritual servant that is at the same time efficient yet dangerous. Besides the implications of Necromantic knowledge involved in the development of this ritual, some say that masters of the Animalism and Auspex Disciplines were also involved, since it replicates similar results of their most advanced powers as well. However, ritualistic refinement has enabled this ritual to indeed work independent of a mystic’s knowledge of those Disciplines. Scholarly Abyss mystics also suggest there seem to be similar powers practiced by vampires from the Far East. The Shadow Beast is a fierce spiritual guardian as well as a means of perceiving the spirit world, though this ritual is not without many perils, however. A mystic must be careful—failing to control the Beast while it is under this ritual’s effects might take it to a higher degree of awareness, and some would say malevolence. Some mystics are left with cunningly intelligent Beast-possessed Shadows after proving ineptitude with this ritual—and the possible results from a Shadow Beast's destruction are even more devastating. System: This ritual takes 2 hours to cast, and lasts as long as the mystic desires, though the first step of the ritual is meant to prepare the vampire’s shadow to receive the Beast. The mystic must use Shadowplay (Obtenebration Level One) to distinctively cast his shadow over a smooth surface, where it must be projected as a long silhouette, unconnected to the mystic’s body by any path of shadow. This is usually done in a controlled environment free from interruption, since the mystic must engage in deep concentration immediately afterward while facing their own shadow. The ritual itself involves a series of trances and mental exercises meant to bring the Beast close to the surface, the actual details of which vary from vampire to vampire. Some dwell deeply on memories of previous moments of fury or humiliation, while others fast for many nights before casting the ritual so that their Hunger stirs the Beast. Regardless, the vampire must not succumb to frenzy, but must be close to it, which requires a Willpower point to be spent at this point. On the following turn the vampire opens a vein (or otherwise bleeds), sprinkling his shadow with the equivalent of a Blood Point. The player then rolls Intelligence + Occult (Difficulty 8 ). If successful, the shadow now houses the vampire's Beast and they is free from its pernicious influence. While this means that the mystic does not risk succumbing to Frenzy or Rötschrek, neither can Willpower be regained or spent (including to power Disciplines or grant an automatic success) while the vampire’s Beast inhabits his shadow. The mystic also casts no shadow while this ritual is in effect, which even applications of Obtenebration (such as skilled use of Shadowplay) cannot remedy. The Shadow Beast and the mystic should be treated as separate and distinct entities, although both share a connection that is (usually) dominated by the mystic. They can go no farther from each other than 50 feet (15 meters) per Willpower dot the mystic possesses—a spiritual tether (fetter?) attracts one to the other, and if thus separated, willingly or not, both must halve all dice pools. To end the ritual the mystic must call the Beast back by wounding himself, suffering an unsoakable level of Lethal damage. The sight (or smell, or sense—none can be certain at this point) of the mystic’s blood causes the Shadow Beast to pour itself through the wound, returning both Beast and shadow to their rightful places, the mystic’s body. The Shadow Beast itself is an entity composed both from physical and supernatural darkness, hence it has an affinity with both the material and spiritual planes. It exists on the Astral Plane in a manner similar to an Auspex user’s Astral Body, being tangible to spirits and other astral travelers. For these purposes the Shadow Beast is treated as if it were the mystic’s Astral Body, including being immaterial to the physical world, replacing Mental and Social Traits for Physical ones (Wits replaces Dexterity, Manipulation supplants Strength, and Intelligence replaces Stamina), and Willpower for Health Levels. All of its attacks cause aggravated damage to astral and spiritual (or ghostly) beings, and it has a distinct Willpower pool apart from the mystic's own, but treated only as its Health Levels—the spiritual disjunction resulting from this separation impedes use of Willpower points for both parties. If a Shadow Beast loses all its Willpower points, a vortex of darkness opens up to swallow it to whereabouts unknown. The mystic has probably lost both his Beast and his shadow forever to the depths of the spirit worlds, although an extremely arduous spiritual quest (and journey) through the far reaches of the Astral Plane might enable the mystic to find both again. Alternatively, a Storyteller might allow a mystic to spend a permanent point of Willpower to simply reclaim his Beast and his shadow. Differently from an Astral Body however, the Shadow Beast is also visible on the material plane as an intangible, dark silhouette. It can use all the mystic’s Abilities, and its shadowy nature gives it -2 to Difficulties of all Stealth rolls, and it can also use Stealth as a Talent. In the physical plane the Shadow Beast automatically benefits from the passive uses of the three physical Disciplines known by the mystic (adding extra dice to its Physical Attributes), and Auspex 1 (if the vampire knows it), and it can see in the dark. A Shadow Beast acts on its own initiative based on its version of the vampire’s Wits + Wits (since Wits replaces Dexterity in the Astral Plane), which might be different from the vampire’s physical body. Fire and sunlight in the physical plane can hurt the Shadow Beast across the spirit world, and even its equivalent Fortitude cannot help it soak this damage—it is extremely sensitive to these vampiric banes. It automatically Frenzies and enters Rötschrek when confronted with circumstances where a vampire would only risk such, but it is less prone to do so if the stimulus comes from the material plane. On the other hand, it immediately attacks any spiritual being approaching it—indeed, the Beast should be roleplayed as an extremely cunning and intelligent predator, since its nature does not change with this ritual, it is still a vampire’s Beast, the sum of the vampire’s predator-impulses and most base, animalistic and primal instincts. A mystic can, however, try to exert control over their Shadow Beast with a successful Opposed Willpower roll, and in this way a vampire can even help control the Frenzy and Rötschrek impulses of their Shadow Beast. Each success enables the Shadow Beast to act according the mystic’s demands regardless of outside stimulus for a turn, and five successes on an extended Willpower roll, tested once per turn, allows the Shadow Beast to completely ignore such stimuli. A failure on this roll at any time adds +1 to the difficulty of subsequent attempts to control the Beast, cumulatively. Aside from these situations, the Shadow Beast acts as the mystic wills it. The Shadow Beast and the mystic share linked minds and are aware of each other at all times. A mystic with the Merit: Medium or who knows the Necromantic Sepulcher, Ash or Vitreous Paths (at any level) can choose to send the Shadow Beast to the Shadowlands instead of the Astral Plane; the Shadow Beast is tangible to ghosts, as they are to it. If a mystic lacks the proper abilities to send the Shadow Beast to the Underworld, they can sacrifice a living being (usually a mortal) before casting this ritual—the entropic energies freed by the sacrifice attune the Shadow Beast to the lands of the dead, though few kindred, if any, are actually aware of this variation of the ritual. Through the connection the mystic and the Shadow Beast share, the mystic can use the entity’s senses in the Shadowlands or the Astral Plane without any further effort besides a turn’s concentration. It is possible to channel more advanced perception powers (such as those provided by Auspex) through the Shadow Beast with an additional turn of concentration required for each power used in this way. Mystics are also instinctively aware of their Shadow Beast’s moods, so they can be used to detect ambushes or hidden approaches. In such circumstances, allow the player to make Perception rolls both for the mystic and the Shadow Beast and benefit from the result with most Successes (or the sum of Successes in the case of a resisted roll). Side-Effect: If the roll to cast this ritual or any Willpower roll while attempting to control the Beast is botched, the mystic must make a Conscience/Conviction roll (difficulty 8 ). Failure means the mystic acquires a derangement, usually manifested as a form of Schizophrenia – the mystic begins to hear the Beast’s whispers, full of ridicule and malice, during stressful times. Upon further botches with this ritual (or at a Storyteller’s discretion, any failed or botched degeneration roll) this derangement can further develop as a form of Multiple Personality, where the mystic risks falling prey to a darker, self-destructive persona – an amalgam of his Beast and the darkest aspects of his mind. The Flaw Suicidal Beast (Players Guide to Low Clans, p.186) can also be acquired as if it were a derangement, in this case.
So, yeah, it's a long one, but after re-reading this, I've decided I really, really like this idea, but I have one thing to say. The Beast is bad, when it takes control, the vampire regrets stuff later. The Shadow (of a Wraith) is worse, as it actively tries to subvert the goals of the ghost. Because of this, I think that the side-effect of this ritual should involve the great risk involved when the Mystic LOSES control of the Shadow Beast. I think that little motherfucker just basically run amok, but in a sadistic and cunning way that targets ONLY the Shadow beast's "sire"-vampire. Like, a "free" Shadow Beast does not start randomly destroying stuff (that's what a free Hungry Shade does, iirc), instead it immediately sets about trying to oppose the vampire that created them in every way possible. Basically if you mess up on this ritual, you not only lose the ability to spend and use WP, but also lose your shadow AND gain the Flaw: Enemy (your own shadow), all until you can beat it up in the Astral Plain (or Underworld, if you can catch it there instead) and then win a Willpower roll against it and make it return. You shouldn't be able to do this in the physical plane because the ritual states that in the real world a Shadow Beast is immaterial. In addition, we already have rituals that impart a Derangement on the user if they screw up, so this helps mix things up a bit, for some variety in your punishments. =) So, that's my two cents, anybody agree or disagree? EDIT: I also want to suggest a Level of Four for this ritual as well. | |
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Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03
| Subject: Re: CHAPTER 2 - Abyss Mysticism: Black Magics Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:20 am | |
| This one is debatable. We're feeling mixed on it. The first time I read it it was over my head, lol, so I withheld any opinions. Then I re-read it and I questioned its pertinence to the topic of Abyss Mysticism. Then I re-read it a third time and decided I liked it, i got it, and it's acceptable. Then everybody jumped on my let's-question-this-one-particualr-entry bandwagon and I don't know what the f--- is HAPPENING! lol Just kidding. =) Seriously, I now see this entry as a tool to use if one wants to explore alternate interpretations of the word "dark." We know that the darkness of the Abyss is connected to the darkness in people's minds... what other forms of darkness could there be, and is it possible they would also fall under the Umbrella of TRUE darkness, aka the Abyss? Christianity often identifies their religion with light, could this perhaps create a polar opposite that now falls under the realm of influence of the Abyss? I think it's subtle, but the potential is there, especially when considering the Storytelling opportunities now to involve infernalists like the Angellis Ater, or the Sabbat Inquisition, which seldom, if ever, sees the difference between Infernalism and Abyss Mysticism already. So I say with three votes for, one, maybe two votes in question of, and like a dozen abstaining... I say the motion re-passes and stays in the book. Next on the agenda: yes, the pages were taken directly from the PDF file we have of the book. No, vali's previous post seems to be a super-duper-truncated version of what he previously submitted. I am not looking for anything more out of the entry concerning the Gospel of Laodice, but that's me. I guess you could play up the darkness angle a bit but whatever, I think just by placing this write-up in an Abyssal Guide will infer enough to get the creative ST to start connecting Abyssal and unholy darknesses. What I would really like to draw your creative attention to, Mr. Avery, is this link for the Checklist we have of what still needs work. I will make you Supreme Ultimate Commander and give you absolute authority over EVERY other member of this group (except me, of course) if you be the one to figure something out for the section on Paths of Moralities related to the Abyss. =) And finally, speaking of the Guide again, I guess we might as well let you peek at the book itself and you can see just exactly what needs work and what doesn't. I'll need your email address, because it isn't hosted anywhere yet, so you can PM me or whatever you want, if interested in that. EDIT: - Matt Avery wrote:
- ...I'm really impressed and would love to be able to be a part of it, even though I am coming so late to the party.
Gattitson, I really like your Abyssal Affinity merit and if you work out details on that it could simplify some of the effect description on the Inheritance ritual as well, by just having them gain that merit in addition to the Obtenebration bonus. Also could probably stand to remove the 50% failure for embrace and add 50% chance to pass that merit onto their childer instead. The more I think about it the draw backs I threw on the ritual, even though I feel they're thematic, are mechanically probably too harsh. Considering it basically does the same as the 4th In Clan merit but is extremely risky to pull off AND has a Path requirement to maintain AND makes your blood weaker AND cuts back on two disciplines. I still like the general blood weakness stuff for bonds and ghouls, but probably would work fine with only reducing one In clan to 6x cost. Could suggest it be one that is less "Abyssal" like I'd see Animalism, Presence, Vicissitude, Protean, Valeran, even Dementation and Chimerstry maybe being less abyss-like than say Dominate, Potence, Fortitude, Obfuscate, and perhaps Daimonion. Like the Path this would be at storyteller's discretion to work out with the player. Better late than never, as they say. As for the ritual, I agree the drawbacks got a little harsh the more they stacked, but I really like the counterbalance of loss of affinity for non-Obtenebration Disciplines, I think that one definitely needs to remain. I also like the secret weakness of not being able to Blood Bond or ghoul as normal, but needing an extra night/drink, another really good idea. I think if you drop the "50% failure to Embrace" as suggested, and also drop the rating requirement for Path to something low, like 3, 4 or 5, so it's accessible, but out of reach to Abyss mystic-newbies (so a new char can't just switch Paths just to get this ritual), then it starts to look good. Also, I think that maybe the bonus gained by this ritual should simply BE the benefits gained by the Abyssal Affinity Merit. The one difference I would suggest is that with the Merit there's a 50% chance of passing it on to Childer, but with the Ritual, it is NOT. I say this because the Merit I would describe as mostly a "pureblood" bloodline, "chosen by the Abyss" sort of thing, while with the ritual the caster is pretty much asking a favor of the Abyss, which never chose them to be special, so maybe the Abyss doesn't want it's essence being diluted by passing through unworthy childer of a Mystic who casts this ritual. It'd be one of the side-effects. Thoughts? | |
| | | valismedsen
Posts : 75 Join date : 2012-06-11 Age : 41 Location : Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
| Subject: Re: CHAPTER 2 - Abyss Mysticism: Black Magics Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:27 pm | |
| Gattison, I'm glad that the original version of the Gospel of Laodice was voted to stay.
Scrap the trimmed paragraph I posted, then.
I guess you could add your own thoughts on the section, however, on a sidebar.
I think this you wrote is great (I did a little edit on it):
The Gospel of Laodoce is a tool to use if one wants to explore alternate interpretations of the word "dark." The darkness of the Abyss is connected to the darkness in people's minds and spiritual darkness. But what other forms of darkness could there be, and is it possible they would also fall under the umbrella of TRUE darkness, aka the Abyss? Christianity often identifies their religion with Light, could this perhaps create a polar opposite that now falls under the realm of influence of the Abyss? It is a subtle distinction, perhaps semantics, but the potential is there, especially when considering the Storytelling opportunities to involve Infernalists like the Angellis Ater, or the Sabbat Inquisition, which seldom, if ever, sees the difference between Infernalism and Abyss Mysticism already. | |
| | | Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: Re: CHAPTER 2 - Abyss Mysticism: Black Magics Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:24 pm | |
| We should have had this discussion in the Chapter 1 thread... we're so chaotic neutral. =|
=) | |
| | | Gattison Admin
Posts : 306 Join date : 2012-06-03 Age : 44 Location : New England, USA
| Subject: Sorry to keep picking on Bruno's ritual, but... Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:05 am | |
| I don't mean to pick on Bruno's ritual, but I added his Abyssal hunter to the Bestiary, and happened to compare it to the Hungry shade, and it looks to me as if the Abyssal Hunter is a bit weak for a level 4 ritual. I gone ahead and suggested some stats for the Abyssal hunter to make it a bit more formidable. Also, I think maybe we should consider allowing Hunters to have Mental traits, but not Social ones. The ritual states that the Hunters lie in wait until an enemy is open to attack, and I feel not having any mental traits reflects this poorly. thoughts? - Abyssal Hunter (Artume's Child, Spawn of Rhollor):
(Chapter Two, p. 62) Summoned from the Abyss with a Level Four Ritual, Abyssal Hunters are relentless, tenebrous assassins, summoned to our world for the purpose of eliminating troublesome enemies. Hunters, also called Artume's Children or Spawns of Rhollor, do not return to the Abyss until they are destroyed, or their intended target is dead. Also, they have an innate sense of their true target, and any attempts to deceive them by concealing the target's identity almost universally fails. Though possessing an incomprehensible, alien will, Hunters are known to employ patience, planning and tireless dedication in their attacks more often than not, often waiting until a target is at their weakest before striking unseen from the shadows. When summoned, Hunters need a specific name and clear image of their victim, otherwise they will attack the summoner. None of an Abyssal Hunter's traits may exceed the summoner's Obtenebration rating, and they may never have Social or Mental Attributes. They have a Willpower rating and a number of Health Levels equal to the Willpower of the human sacrificed during the ritual, though they have no way of refilling their Willpower Pool. (Below is a sample Abyssal Hunter, created with an Obtenebration level of 5, 4 Successes, and a mortal sacrifice with Willpower 7.) Physical: Strength 5, Dexterity 4, Stamina 4 Social: (none) Mental: (none) Abilities: Alertness 4, Athletics 4, Brawl 4, Investigation 4, Larceny 1, Occult 4, Stealth (Sneak Attacks) 5 Disciplines: Fortitude 2, Obtenebration 6, Potence 1 Willpower: 7 Health Levels: 7 (seven) Attack: (as normal) Notes: Abyssal Hunters are naturally immaterial, as per Tenebrous Avatar, thus Obtenebration Level Four allows them to manifest a physical body. They may see clearly in natural and unnatural darkness, and may freely use their Obtenebration powers without the need for blood, though they may use their non-replenishable Willpower Pool in place of Blood Points to increase the effects of a Discipline. Hunters take aggravated damage from sunlight and fire, soak damage as vampires and suffer no wound penalties. Communication with Abyssal Hunters is difficult, and in most cases, only the summoner can converse with them effectively.
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Legalese: The Small Printing | Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:27 pm by Gattison | The following text was copied and pasted directly from the only source I could find it using Google-fu. If you know of a more official source or a more up-to-date release, please let us know. Don't "suggest" I contact WW themselves... that's on my to-do list, lol. =)
General Source: The Carpe Noctem website.*
Main Source: The Carpe Noctem Reference Guide: [url=http://carpenoctem-online.com/wiki/index.php?title=Reference_Guide%3A_WHITE_WOLF_SITE_GUIDELINES]White Wolf Fan-Site …
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Like a Pack of Grey Jackals | Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:16 pm by Gattison | So far we don't have that many friends, but we seem to be steadily expanding, albeit slowly, so hopefully this list will eventually get much bigger. =)
Allies of the Grey Jackals:
Steve Markley's The Howling Void
Echoes of Empires
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Memories: We Were So Young and Stupid... | Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:43 pm by Gattison | This is the original version of our mission statement/greeting/recruitment attempt, posted here for posthumous appreciation, enjoy!
Gattison, valismedsen, and I have decided to combine our abilities and formed 'Grey Jackal Fan Productions'. We’re going to be constructing a compendium, book by book for Vampire. As we complete supplements they’ll be edited and slotted into the greater …
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The Grey Jackal | Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:07 pm by Gattison | Firstly, it all started here, so go ahead and check that out if you actually haven't yet. =)
And, I suppose you're all wondering why I've summoned you...
Welcome, to Grey Jackal Fan-Supplements, a group of creative and enthusiastic fans of the Classic World of Darkness. So far, our members from the boards are valismedsen, Anda, DanielPLanman, Gattison, Drkcv, and Ihatealllife.
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