CHAPTER 5 & APPENDIX I: Templates & NPC's (aka, Players & Haters)

Chapter 5
Living Silhouettes: Abyssal Archetypes
("Nameless" Templates)
The Abyssal Alchemist (Lasombra)
The Antitribu Keeper (Lasombra Antitribu)
The Arm of the Abyss (Independent Ghoul)
Daddy's Little Girl (Lasombra)
The Dark Dabbler (Kiasyd)
A Dead Man's Tool (Xi Dundu)
The Evil Twin (Lasombra, see below)
The Psychologist (Lasombra)

Appendix I
Shadowed Ones
Shadow Mystics and Other Abyssal Figures
("Named" NPC's, FULL write-up)
Adetokunbo, Childe of the Enshadowed Magus (Tremere)
Agathe De Lannuie, Weirdling Scholar and Ashipu Philosopher (Kiasyd)
Byrsa, the Many Faces of Antiquity (True Brujah)
Cordelia, Serpent of the Night (Serpent of the Light)
Nyx, Goddess of the Night (Lasombra)
Robert de Villeroi, the Fallen Angel (Lasombra Angellis Ater)

("Named" NPC's, PARTIAL write-up)
The Casuli, Avatar of the Abyss (unknown)
Pedro Perez, "Hero" of the Lasombra (Lasombra)
The Greanac, Shadow of Nothing (non-vampire)

The Four Allies
("Named" NPC's, FULL write-up)
Doña Gabriela Juana Reyes de Gibraltar, the Cardinal of Maghreb and Keeper of Secrets (Lasombra)
Force-of-Silence, the Cryptic Shaman (Werewolf/Lupine--NON-MYSTIC)
Vescovo Giovanni, the Model Necromancer (Giovanni--NON-MYSTIC)
Hargos, the Fading Family-Man (Ghost/Wraith--NON-MYSTIC)

Score:
Lasombra Mystics: 9
Non-Lasombra Mystics: 7
Non-Vampire: 2
Non-Mystics: 4

I know that this chapter was probably done, but I wrote another one cuz I thought that the idea was good enough. Please have a look at it and tell me what you think, should we squeeze it in?
If so, I'll draw a picture and make some stats.
Oh, and please look to see if the english is alright.

Spoiler:

Firs of all, Anda, your English always seems to be near-perfect when you write Character Templates, for some oodd reason. It was just the location that felt a little... Swedish, lol. Or Australian, I guess you could pick one.

Seriously though, I like the story, and the idea behind it, and especially the obsession the character has with getting her mortal twin Embraced by an enemy, which must be kept hidden from the Lasombra (which I'm assuming is her Clan).

I do think it needs a bit more detail, or something, not much, but exactly how the mortal came to "stumble" across Abyss Mysticism (which should typically have very little to do with humans) might be helpful. Plus maybe a couple other pieces of expanded clarity. Nothing major though.

Anybody agree or disagree?

I'll fit it in the book though, unless somebody can come with a reason not to. =)

Anda wrote:

I know that this chapter was probably done...

So far nothing is officially closed, but I'm about to propose saying "No More Non-Lasombra Character Submissions" ...

Not that I probably won't totally backtrack on that and accept whatever good new ideas everybody has, but I would like us to try and focus on the Lasombra, because, well, it should be obvious, you know... lol =)

The Evil Twin
Quote: "The only bad thing that came with this
curse is the fact that I no longer can see my own image in the mirror. Now all
I see is her."
Prelude: You and
your twin sister were never anything alike. She was beautiful but you were
ugly. She was popular but you were hated. She was sane but you were insane.
Living in your sisters shadow you realized that you could never rise to her
standards so instead you got obsessed with the idea of being everything she
wasn't. She loved sitcoms so you watched documentaries. She had a hot boyfriend
so you decided to be a lesbian. All she wanted was to make her parents proud,
you murdered them. She ended up getting an impressive career and you spent those years in a dark prison
cell... just like you wanted it.
When you finally got out you learned that your sister had become a faithful
Christian. Your research showed that only the church had been able to heal your
sister's psychological pain from the terrible loss of your parents. She had
embraced the light so you would embrace the darkness. You spent the following
years studying the occult, trying to find Christianity's opposite. You crossed
out Islam, Judaism and all the other big religions pretty fast, they were too much
alike. You considered atheism but it shared the same moral backbone as your
sister's belief. Devil worshipping would seem obvious but just like
Christianity you put one supreme being on a pedestal, they just replaced
Jehovah with Lucifer and instead followed his commands.
Your research in the occult took you deeper and deeper into the internet's most
secretive forums where you eventually
stumbled upon Abyss Mysticism. With all of the sources encryptions decoded you finally
understood the big picture of this secret practice and you were pleased. There was no moral codes and no supreme entity
that you worshipped, instead one sought to control and use the dark realm's
creatures after your own made up morals. It suited you perfectly. The only
problem was that there wasn't much further information you could dig up on the
subject.
It took a long time before you managed to track down a mentor of this dark
secretive religion. It kinda freaked you out when he revealed his fangs to you,
but when you learned that you could become a whole different specie than your
sister you gladly accepted the vampire's offer.
The Creation Rites were a bigger pain in the ass than what prison had been but was
totally worth it. You were a fucking vampire now and the powers your Sire
showed you were cooler than you could've imagine. Now everything about you was
different from your sister.
The bitch wouldn't let you enjoy that feeling too long though. Your whole world
came tumbling down when you learned that she was dying in lung cancer. You came
to the bitter conclusion that if she dies you no longer knew who you were. Without
her you had no purpose.
Concept: You hate the idea but you now
understand that it is crucial that your twin sister sticks around. Your current
main goal now is to get her embraced by someone of the opposite fraction. But how
can you convince your enemy to do you a favor and how can you keep it hidden
from your own? It is a dangerous game that you're playing so you look into the
darkness for answers.
Roleplaying Hints: You dress like a
rock-n-roller turned bum, wearing a collection of dirty and torn leather gear
combined with washed out t-shirts with holes in 'em . Even though it may not
look so, you have carefully planned you whole outfit. Every disgusting piece in
your wardrobe has been picked out to send out the signal that you're nothing
like your sister. Your body type wasn't even designed to become obese, but with
enough willpower you formed it to a look exactly how you wanted it. The same
goes for your personality. You really didn't have it in you to become a killer,
you forced yourself to embrace that dark side. Your bad language and attitude
were a role you played so well that you didn't only convince the world that it was
true, but also yourself. You are obsessed with not becoming anything like your
twin sister but at the same time you fighting your very own nature.
Equipment: A wardrobe full of smelly punk-rock clothing, an old 1950's
motorcycle and a laptop with a connected printer for printing occult documents.

Concept: Evil Twin
Generation: 12th
Nature: Competitor
Demeanor: Creep Show
Clan: Lasombra

Stats:
Strength 3, Dexterity 2, Stamina 1
Charisma 2, Manipulation 4, Appearance 1
Perception 4, Intelligence 4, Wits 2

Alertness 3, Brawl 1, Intimidation 2, Streetwise 1, Subterfuge 2
Drive 2, Firearms 2, Security 1
Academics 1, Computer 4, Enigmas 3, Investigation 2, Law 1, Occult 3, Politics
1, Science 2

Dominate 1, Obtenebration 3

Mentor 1, Generation 1

Abyss Rituals:
-The shadow of hands that serve
-The heart that beats in silence

Humanity 2, Self-Control 2, Courage 4

Humanity 4
Willpower 7

Gattison

I hope you like the minor changes I did. What do you think about the stats?

I like the re-post, Anda, thanks for formatting like that for me.

As for the Stats:
- You can still spend one Creation Point in Social Traits it looks like, (Char, Manip or App)
- You've got 4 extra Abilities, so there's 8 Freebies...
- Then it looks like you used Sabbat Char Creation methods, so, 2 Freebies on Backgrounds... 10 total
- 1 Freebie for Shadow of Hands That serve + 2 Freebies for Heart That Beats in Silence... 13 total
- aha! I thought I was going to have to delete all the above and say "good job!" but no! lol With 2 Freebies left, the Character's WP would go from 4 [+2] to 6, not 7.

lol, you are not allowed to exchange 1 Attribute Point for 1 Willpower point... cheater. =)

Other than that it looks real good, although...

Perhaps the word Sabbat could be actually used somewhere in the text a couple times... just to be clear that this is a Sabbat char, and the "opposite faction" would be a Camarillan vamp. I point this out because of the Sabbat Creation Method used, otherwise I would appreciate the vaguery of the word "sect," so that a player could opt to play it as an antitribu, however this is not really an option here. See my point? =) Either that or redistrubte points according to the Generic Creation Rules (V20).

The Evil Twin
Quote: "The only bad thing that came with this
curse is the fact that I no longer can see my own image in the mirror. Now all
I see is her."
Prelude: You and
your twin sister were never anything alike. She was beautiful but you were
ugly. She was popular but you were hated. She was sane but you were insane.
Living in your sisters shadow you realized that you could never rise to her
standards so instead you got obsessed with the idea of being everything she
wasn't. She loved sitcoms so you watched documentaries. She had a hot boyfriend
so you decided to be a lesbian. All she wanted was to make her parents proud,
you murdered them. She ended up getting an impressive career and you spent those years in a dark prison
cell... just like you wanted it.
When you finally got out you learned that your sister had become a faithful
Christian. Your research showed that only the church had been able to heal your
sister's psychological pain from the terrible loss of your parents. She had
embraced the light so you would embrace the darkness. You spent the following
years studying the occult, trying to find Christianity's opposite. You crossed
out Islam, Judaism and all the other big religions pretty fast, they were too much
alike. You considered atheism but it shared the same moral backbone as your
sister's belief. Devil worshipping would seem obvious but just like
Christianity you put one supreme being on a pedestal, they just replaced
Jehovah with Lucifer and instead followed his commands.
Your research in the occult took you deeper and deeper into the internet's most
secretive forums where you eventually
stumbled upon Abyss Mysticism. With all of the sources encryptions decoded you
finally understood the big picture of this secret practice and you were
pleased. There was no moral codes and no
supreme entity that you worshipped, instead one sought to control and use the
dark realm's creatures after your own made up morals. It suited you perfectly. The
only problem was that there wasn't much further information you could dig up on
the subject.
It took a long time before you managed to track down a mentor of this dark
secretive religion. It kinda freaked you out when he revealed his fangs to you,
but when you learned that you could become a whole different specie than your
sister you gladly accepted the vampire's offer.
The Creation Rites were a bigger pain in the ass than what prison had been but was
totally worth it. You were a fucking vampire now and the powers your Sire
showed you were cooler than you could've imagine. Now everything about you was
different from your sister.
The bitch wouldn't let you enjoy that feeling too long though. Your whole world
came tumbling down when you learned that she was dying in lung cancer. You came
to the bitter conclusion that if she dies you no longer knew who you were. Without
her you had no purpose.
Concept: You hate the idea but you now
understand that it is crucial that your twin sister sticks around. Your current
main goal now is to get her embraced by someone of the opposite fraction. But how
can you convince the enemies in the Camarilla to do you a favor and how can you
keep it hidden from your own Sect? It is a dangerous game that you're playing
so you look into the darkness for answers.
Roleplaying Hints: You dress like a
rock-n-roller turned bum, wearing a collection of dirty and torn leather gear
combined with washed out t-shirts with holes in 'em . Even though it may not
look so, you have carefully planned you whole outfit. Every disgusting piece in
your wardrobe has been picked out to send out the signal that you're nothing
like your sister. Your body type wasn't even designed to become obese, but with
enough willpower you formed it to a look exactly how you wanted it. The same
goes for your personality. You really didn't have it in you to become a killer,
you forced yourself to embrace that dark side. Your bad language and attitude
were a role you played so well that you didn't only convince the world that it
was true, but also yourself. You are obsessed with not becoming anything like
your twin sister but at the same time you fighting your very own nature.
Equipment: A wardrobe full of smelly punk-rock clothing, an old 1950's
motorcycle and a laptop with a connected printer for printing occult documents.

Concept: Evil Twin
Generation: 12th
Nature: Competitor
Demeanor: Creep Show
Clan: Lasombra

Stats:
Strength 3, Dexterity 2, Stamina 1
Charisma 3, Manipulation 4, Appearance 1
Perception 4, Intelligence 4, Wits 2

Alertness 3, Brawl 1, Intimidation 2, Streetwise 1, Subterfuge 2
Drive 2, Firearms 2, Security 1
Academics 1, Computer 4, Enigmas 3, Investigation 2, Law 1, Occult 3, Politics
1, Science 2

Dominate 1, Obtenebration 3

Mentor 1, Generation 1

Abyss Rituals:
-The shadow of hands that serve
-The heart that beats in silence

Humanity 2, Self-Control 2, Courage 4

Humanity 4
Willpower 6

:@:Gattison

Thanks for the help
I changed a sentance in the Concept to this:
"But how can you convince the enemies in the Camarilla to do you a favor and how can you keep it hidden from your own Sect?"
I hope that leaves no questionmarks on what Sect I intended for the character

I also fixed the errors in the stats, thanks for pointing them out!
I might explain also that I chose the rituals I chose because she can use them for spying on her sister among other things. Seemed logical that she would chose them to begin with.
Now I'm gonna go and try to draw her.

Awesome. =)

I'm working on the chapters now, so I'll add her to the book shortly.

EDIT: Alright, all set. Now waiting for the pic, and also for me to fill out the CS and insert it into the file.

I realised I haven't written any quotes for my other two templates so here are 3 alternatives for each. Since not many ppl are active on this forum I guess it wont be a vote so you can chose whichever you like Gatty.

A
Dead Man's Tool

Supreme power is hidden there in the darkness, why not use it?

Abyssal Sorcery is a essential tool for our Legacy's survival.

We shall not let one mistake scare us away from these powers. Greatness always
comes with a high price!


Daddy's Little Girl

I will find you daddy...

I am prepared to forever walk in darkness if you are there to hold my hand.

I'm not sure of what I will find within the darkness but I know I have to go
there for closure.

I choose the following... but of course I'm always open to suggestions.

I felt compelled to alter them a bit, don't take offense Anda, it's not you, it's my controlling nature, lol.

What do you think?

A Dead Man's Tool
We can't let one mistake scare us away from these powers--greatness always comes with a high price!

Daddy's Little Girl
I am prepared to walk forever in darkness... if you are there to hold my hand....

Awesome, love it!

cool quotes, love them

@Anda loved your Evil Twin

Thanks man!

Have we put together a list of the NPCs from WW's books yet? I couldn't find one here on this forum but I remember we spoke about Moncada and Zadkiel, etc. (if not then maybe it would be a good idea to sum up all the WW-NPCs that's Abyss Mystics.)

The reason why I ask is I think I found 1, possibly 2 or 3 more in connection to the Dark Magister.
My reference is The Road of Sin, page 35. Under the section New Lacedaemonia it speaks about that island as a place that the Dark Magister keep visiting. Now I'm a bit confused on how many Abyss Mystics that's in this text so if anyone of you have the book it would be nice to hear your take on it. The Lasombra Captain of the ship, Alejandro Martel y Sandoval, is a former follower of Road of Night that has now turned to Road of Sin. I don't know if anyone has any info about him (Valis?), but this book doesn't give much more than that so it's probably not enough to point him out as an Abyss Mystic.
One onboard that I do think could be a solid case though would be the Azaneali shadow-priestess Arishat. True? And what about her Sire; Azaneal that the text mentions? I don't know who Azaneal is but the text here presents him as someone that I should know about. Maybe he hides somewhere here in this book, after all I haven't finished it yet.
But yeah, I think atleast Arishat could be in the NPC section.

Edit: I see that Boof mentions Azabeal on the first page of the abyss thread also, he's baali. Infernalist Abyss Mystics?

Edit 2: I've tried to put together a little list of NPCs. Please speak up if anyone of them are not abyss mystics or if someone is missing. Some of them I have marked with a question mark, that means that they have been brought up in the abyss thread but we never decided if they infact were abyss mystics or not, and we might wanna decide that now.

Known Abyss Mystics:



Cardinal
Mysancta – dedicated of the mysteries of the Abyss and advocates that
forsaking the flesh is the key to true mastery over darkness. Once a
middle-aged woman but now almost exclusively in Shadow-form. Her Cardinal's
robes hang over a silver frame which she moves around using shadow arms, and
her glass crown is supported with spiraling wires.

Cardinal Menuven – not outspoken as a mystic, but there are stories of
he/she/it as a creature of pure Abyssal intellect. The Cardinal is composed of
several bodies – former templars and pack priests – which is joined together
with thaumaturgically created carbon rods, inserted into each cainite's brain.
Shadows is seen constantly moving through the rods, the cainites shows mastery
of shadow manipulation, and talks with the same whispery voice.

Roxana – mentioned as a Abyss mystics. Some few decades undead, looks
like a wrestler. Member of Bishop Andrew Emory's hunting pack. May enter the
Abyss with little effort, but is having a harder time with avoiding the hostile
entities her entry attracts.

Gratiano and Montano – maybe not Abyss mystics in the meaning I use the
word, but never the less two extremely potent wielders of it's powers. Montano
admits “Gratiano delighted in the routine use of Abyss mysticism and related
powers”. While Montano knows himself to be the eldest Lasombra in the world and
his mastery of the Abyss is without competition. Montano knews that he is the
only one old and powerful enough to enter the Abyss without his body, for
instance.

Ignacio Rinieri – the second in power in the circle of summoners. Escaped
the attack on the Castle of Shadows by shadow-stepping through the walls and
ended up in the nearby castle of St. Rafael the Archangel. Had a personal chat
with the Founder a about a week before the great revolt, when he was a young
vampire, and revisits that place and time in a vision he believes comes from
the antediluvian. Have since learnt all the most dark and secret of words, and
languages long since forgotten by mortals.


Gotzon
Well former Abyss Mystic I think, he refuses to use any abyssal power even though he possess them.

Caridad
From Mexico City By Night

ZadkielFrom Mexico City By Night

Moncada

The Lasombra Priestess of Ereshigal
Clanbook Baali

Polonia ?
Not an Abyss Mystic but should probably be discussed somewhere...

Zarathustra ?
I don't know anything about this one but I've seen he has been discussed on the forum.

Bishop De Navarre ?
12th Century Parisian Lasombra who made some type of abyss bomb?

Countess Saviarre ?
From Dark Ages Clan Novel Brujah, also made some type of abyss bomb?

Giselle ?
Some type of character Valismedsen mentions on the forum.

Louhi ?
The Malkavian Methuselah that Phaolan recommended.

Unknown ?
Boof mentioned that an Abyss Mystic replaced the infernalist Salinger as Arch Bishop of Philly recently. He gave no name or source though.

Regarding the Azaneali shadow-priestess Arishat and her Sire Azaneal.
I found info about Azaneal in the book as well. I'mma write what has been written about them below so we can deside if they're mystics or not.

Road of Sin, page 36:
The Azaneali are the youngest of the Baali lineages, founded by no ancient Methuselah, but by a relatively young and ambitious Baali of unknown origins, named Azaneal. Azaneal, studious and filled with a almost singular drive and purpose, has galvanized the Baali as few before him ever have, uncovering secrets lost since the destruction of Nergal with the assistance of a coterie of infernalist Lasombra known as the angellis ater. Azaneal's quest to unlock the mysteries of the lost, unholy city of Chorazin left him both empowered and changed at a deeply disturbing level. No longer simply a Cainite, or even simply a Baali, he has become the undead incarnation of darkness itself, and his mere existence sends shudders of revulsion through the fabric of the Abyss around the site of Chorazin, near Galilee. Perhaps fortunately, Azaneal's lineage remains small. Apparently , only he possesses the ability to create viable childer, as blood of all others he has Embraced is sterile and cannot be used to reproduce more of his kind. Those he has Embraced, however, display a command of shadow-magic that has shocked and disturbed even his Lasombra allies. Azaneal is curently content to squat in Chorazin, decoding the remaining mysteries of that place and summoning those Baali who choose to serve him to his side. Not all Baali have so chosen, despite his assumption of the mantle of Shaitan, and what will arise from the strife building within the remaining Baali nests remains to be seen.

Road of Sin, page 35:
The port of New Lacedaemonia has been darkened in recent nights by repeated visits from a vessel known as the Dark Magister. A Moorish corsair, the ship is captained by the Lasombra Sinner Alejandro Martel y Sandoval, one of the widely feared and despised "black angels" who fell from the relative grace of the Road of Night to the darker Path of Screams, and crewed by a motley band of enslaved human minions and infernalists from various clans. The most recent addition to the ship's complement is the Azaneali shadow-priestess Arishat, one of the first-born childer of Azaneal and easily the most capable agent of his will. Hollowed from within by her ritual Embrace, Arishat is, like her sire, darkness made flesh. Her featureless black eyes are a window into shadowy realms where even the Lasombra hesitate to venture, and her command of that clan's magics outstrips Sandoval's by a considerable margin, despite her youth. Moreover, she has taken nearly complete control of the Dark Magister's pit, the Mouth of Hell, and has been slowly expanding and refining its connection to the forces resident in Chorazin, in between acts of "diplomacy" aimed at other Baali nests and Screamer sanctums scattered throughout the region.

See also:
Chorazin

Good job Anda, and sorry it took so long for me to read this (still busy with schooling, but I should have a week off in a couple weeks).

As for a list of canon Abyss-tics, I had put every one I knew about the in the book already, so you basically just expanded it for us, thanks a ton.

A few quick points:

Montano and Gratiano, like you said, might as well be Abyss mystics, but probably not in the way we have been defining the term. I would imagine that at their level of power, the Disc of Obtenebration and Abyss Mysticism are virtually the same thing, and they might not even bother making a distinction between the two themselves. However, I'm still sure they can cast every Obten power and Abyssal ritual with ease--in fact, I would imagine they're so powerful that when they cast a "ritual" it acts more like a Discipline, meaning they probably don't have to spend an hour (or however long) casting rituals. They just do it.

Polonia is not a mystic, from what I understand, although he should be. Maybe a good idea for discussing Polonia would be to picture him as the "signature character" that gives us an example of what it is like for a Obtenebrous master to begin discovering Abyssal powers on his own?

Zarathustra is probably also not an Abyss mystic, though he probably falls into the same category as Montano and Gratiano--such an Obtenebrous master that he might as well be a mystic.

Giselle Hemmet is the Voudoun Necromancer from Haiti (iirc) who is connected to Baron Samedi (who is not confirmed as being the Samedi progenitor, but imho probably is). I doubt she has much knowledge of the Abyss at all from her write up. I believe we mentioned her because she is a Lasombra who focuses on the Underworld.

Louhi is a 1st Edition NPC, i believe, and I doubt they are a mystic either, but the character's interest in darkening the sun was brought up as a possible element for ST's to use.

Boof was notorious for throwing out random factoids with no references. I've never heard of this character, but that shouldn't mean that they don't exist. There is no Philadelphia by Night, right? so where do we read about the NPC's of Philly?


And finally, really good job on researching the Dark Magister. I never really cared about the Road books, but I guess I should start checking them out, eh?

Thanks for getting back at me, however it would be nice if I could get some thoughts on what I wrote about mortal abyss mystics that you seem to ignore to comment on. I understand that you're busy, everyone seems to be. I'm just trying to make this project easier for you to finish when you actually do get the time off. At the end of the day, I just wanna see this book finished, and not be a project that just slowly faded away half done. Like I said, I understand that all of you are busy, but I don't think some feedback on the mortals is too much to ask.

Regarding what you said about Montano and Gratiano, I agree and they probably don't need a spot in the chapter. I just copied everything that Anarch gave us from the Lasombra Trilogy that had connection to abyss mysticism.

Regarding Polonia, I don't know Gattison... Somehow I think maybe we should avoid trying to solve this character. My personal opinion would be to just write what we know about him, and the strange ties that he has (clearly state that he's not an Abyss Mystic though). I don't know how much text you want to each NPC but to me there isn't much needed really. A short description and a reference where to read more about the character perhaps? The first 5 NPCs that are mentioned in my text are copied from what original anarch wrote on the forum, I personally like how he has done it.

Example:

Quote :

Ignacio Rinieri – the second in power in the circle of summoners. Escaped
the attack on the Castle of Shadows by shadow-stepping through the walls and
ended up in the nearby castle of St. Rafael the Archangel. Had a personal chat
with the Founder a about a week before the great revolt, when he was a young
vampire, and revisits that place and time in a vision he believes comes from
the antediluvian. Have since learnt all the most dark and secret of words, and
languages long since forgotten by mortals.

Source: The Lasombra Trilogy

I think this type of info is easy chewed as they say.

And for the other vampires that you brought up, cool thanks for clearing that up. Regarding Philly, I have no idea to source track that info, we probably shouldn't bother. I'm guessing it might be something that happened in VtES, sounds extreme like that.

Thanks man, I was happy when I stumbled upon the Dark Magister info. What do you think, do we have 2 more Mystics there or are the darkness they are talking about just a way to describe evil and hell for the author? I would love to hear Valis thought about this too since he has read what Clanbook Baali says about the Magister.
Yeah I just started looking into the Road books. Like you, I always thought they were just crap but they're actually really cool. Well, I can't speak for all of them ofc since I only have looked into Road of Sin & Beast, but by the looks of them the others would probably be the same standard.

In contrast, I actually think Montano and Gratiano DO deserve spots, but like the rest of the canon NPC's, they only need a very small bit and the book/page references.

Polonia: Okay, so how about a side-bar with multiple explanations so the ST can choose? A) He's just got a special trick, but it's normal Obtenebration; B) It's an Abyssal ritual, but he doesn't know that (yet?). He might not even care, and only be concerned with whether it works or not; C) He's on his way to discovering additional Abyssal powers and becoming an Abyss mystic; D) He IS a mystic, but it is a carefully guarded secret for some reason up to the ST.

Philly: lol! Yeah, it probably is a V:TES thing, now that you mention it. Oh well, if we had a reliable V:TES guy I'd say go for it, but since we don't, eh.

Azaneal and Arashat: It actually looks like we do have two names to add to the canon list. If there were no Lasombra involved, I would have said the "darkness" they embody is of course metaphoric and not literal, but since the Angelis Ater are involved, I would say that Azaneal allied with them to explore the literal connections between physical and metaphoric darkness. From the sound of it, he might have actually succeeded to some extent as well.

However, I would say since they are never actually labelled specifically as Abyss mystics, I would say they fall in the same category as Gratiano, Montano, Zarathustra and Polonia--it's easy to justify them being mystics in your Chronicle, but it's most likely not canon.

Perhaps split em up into two sections of NPC"s, one of confirmed Abyss-tics and the other of suspected/possible/wish-they-were?

Quote :

In contrast, I actually think Montano and Gratiano DO deserve spots, but
like the rest of the canon NPC's, they only need a very small bit and
the book/page references.

Agreed

Quote :

Polonia: Okay, so how about a side-bar with multiple explanations so
the ST can choose? A) He's just got a special trick, but it's normal
Obtenebration; B) It's an Abyssal ritual, but he doesn't know that
(yet?). He might not even care, and only be concerned with whether it
works or not; C) He's on his way to discovering additional Abyssal
powers and becoming an Abyss mystic; D) He IS a mystic, but it is a
carefully guarded secret for some reason up to the ST.

Maybe, it could work.
I like alternative A.
I don't like alternative B since it doesn't help a Storyteller in any way. And it doesn't explain why he would know it.
Alternative C could work... however, we can't ignore the whole concept of Polonia that WW has put up just because one author went crazy with it in the novels. I would skip C and instead jump straight to D, using that as an alternative instead. Alternative D ofc also goes against what Polonia is, but atleast it opens up the possibility for the Storyteller, and rather have one alternative that goes in that direction than two. D can also suggest Abyss Mystic OR Infernalist (the devil has many forms).

Additional alternative that I think could be suiting:
* Polonia has been instructed how to perform simple tasks that makes it possible for him to contact the Envoys. They can meet halfway in the Tenebrous Realm, Polonia reaching out from the earthly plane and the Envoys from the Abyss. He doesn't have any power over them but instead they exchange favors that will benefit them both. Once on top, Polonia will have a major Boon to repay to whoever the Envoys master is. Probably such a big Boon that one can only wonder if Polonia will be the one ruling or just act the puppet.

I'm sure we can come up with more, have to read through the Polonia thread again...

Quote :

Azaneal and Arashat: It actually looks like we do have two names to add
to the canon list. If there were no Lasombra involved, I would have
said the "darkness" they embody is of course metaphoric and not literal,
but since the Angelis Ater are involved, I would say that Azaneal
allied with them to explore the literal connections between physical and
metaphoric darkness. From the sound of it, he might have actually
succeeded to some extent as well.

Cool man, yeah I'm pretty sure this is beyond metaphors too. I found another piece in the book as well, about Chorazin that contains a little more info about Azaneal. I'll post it as soon as I can (I am at my girlfriends workplace now and don't have the book at hand). I'm not sure, but there might be a creature in that text that could fit in the Ahriman's Abyssiary.

Quote :

However, I would say since they are never actually labelled specifically
as Abyss mystics, I would say they fall in the same category as
Gratiano, Montano, Zarathustra and Polonia--it's easy to justify them
being mystics in your Chronicle, but it's most likely not canon.

Yeah I agree, that's why I like the suggestion you made about dividing them into two categories; one with confirmed Abyss Mystics and one with the possible Abyss Mystics. I am actually working on putting together a list right now, starting with copying and pasting the stuff anarch has written on the forum. I'll share when I feel it starting to look like something neat.

Regarding Polonia, on page 18 in our Abyss Guide:

"But Monçada is not the only Sabbat
luminary that achieved both sect leadership and Abyssal
comprehension without leaving Christian beliefs behind.
Cardinal Francisco Domingo de Polonia, Archibishop of
New York, is reputedly the most powerful Abyss Mystic in the
New World, and known to always wear a silver crucifix
necklace to contrast with his devil-like reddish countenance."

I think this is from Valismedsens Byrsa text, it should probably be changed since I think we all have agreed on not confirming him as a Abyss Mystic.

It has been too long since I read Byrsa's text, so it was nice to see that Bruno already covered Azaneal a bit in this section:

Spoiler:

I still think he and his child should go into the NPC section though.

wow. good catch.

and yes that is an in-character passage attributed to Byrsa... thing is, I think precisely because it is in-character we could leave it, and then still explain him as "unconfirmed" in the NPC's section.

unless of course others disagree.

because it's in-character, we could get away with it, but it would still mean that in our "Story" one of our character believes (probably erroneously) that Polonia is an Abyss mystic. And Byrsa believes this, at that, and I would think she wouldn't be lead to believe such a bold lie... so... idk, really. I could go either way

True that, but to me it seemed like the novel painted his connections with the Envoys as something secret. Then again, Byrsa might hear about it through some type of abyssal sources, who knows? I'm probably leaning towards editing this though, but it's up to Bruno.

agreed, he is our resident Byrsa-expert after all, heh