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Grey Jackal Fan-Supplements

Where RPG fans can share ideas and work together to create the sourcebooks that the companies never will.
 
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The Abyss Guide now has a 4-page Character Sheet, and 6 pages of add-ons!

After a temporary hiatus, the Grey Jackal is back in action!


 

 The Grey Jackal

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Anda

Anda


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PostSubject: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeThu Jun 21, 2012 8:08 am

I remember some of us were talking about that the red thread connecting all of our fan work could be a person, most likely a vampire. I think we played with the idea of that person actually could go under the nickname "The Grey Jackal". I haven't really stopped thinking about this but at the same time I'm still at square one and haven't really figured out anything more on this matter.
But I figured since he has either chosen this name himself, or got it put upon him by others, the animal jackal must say something about this person. So I typed in jackal on wikipedia and I understood pretty quickly that this animal could easily be used as inspiration for a cainite, possibly our Grey Jackal.

Ofc one of my first thoughts were that the jackal is a close relative to the wolf, which ofc put alot of Gangrel-thoughts in my head. That the animal is a scavenger which hunts small and weak things could also serve as inspiration for how this vampire feeds and functions. If I would make him a villain he wouldn't be brutal and strong but instead weak and clever. Normally the jackal hunts alone but assemble from time to time with its small pack. Maybe our villain is not a team player but he has a team.

The Jackal also has its connections to mythology. That is also a way we could approach him. For example Jackals are often depicted as clever sorcerers in Eastern myths. If we would explore that further it would be easier to tie this person to both Abyss mysticism as to the Tal'Mahe'Ra.
Anubis was a Egyptian jackal-headed god associated with mummification and the afterlife and in the Bible the jackal is mentioned 14 times as a literary device to illustrate desolation, loneliness and abandonement. Also the Serer religion and creation myth posits the jackal was among the first animals created by the supreme deity of the Serer people; Roog.

I'm not saying that our metaplot, our red thread has to be a person, a villain named the Grey Jackal. I just thought the idea had many possibilities and I would like to hear what you guys think of the matter.

How would we use a person as a red thread? Well one way to go about it is to make this person so influential that it has something to add to all of our topics. Kinda like Byrsa is to Abyss Mysticism, Necromancy and all the other crazy shit she does. For example; We could mention a important abyss-artifact and just say that it is now in the hands of a mysterious cainite known as the Grey Jackal. In another book The Grey Jackal may take up more space in the storytelling chapter regarding a whole different subject. We could tie childer and grandchilder to this enigmatic figure and use them as different npc's in our various books. Little by little we would reveal more and more about him and eventually make the reader see his stats and provide a clear way of how to involve him in their own stories.

This is ofc just me typing down every single thought that pops up in my head, and I'm not saying that this is the way I would like for us to go about it. I don't even know if I like the idea myself. But I thought at least this thread could serve as a starting point for the debate of what out metaplot and red thread should be. Sometimes all it takes is that someone says something and then a totally different idea pops up into someone else's head.

Yup, with that being said, now I'm gonna go and eat myself obese.

Oh, and have you guys noticed that if u take away the elephants ears it looks like a grey penis. One that the Grey Jackal might have! Coincedence? elephant
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Gattison
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeFri Jun 22, 2012 4:35 pm

You know, I haven't stopped thinking about this either, but I'm in the same situation--I keep mulling it over, but it's not really getting me anywhere.

I love how you actually looked up the jackal, I wish I'd thought of that, lol. =) I think alot of what you came up with is inspiring.

I also came up with this: Grey/Gray Jackal in various languages
Latin = Cinereo Draconis
Spanish/French = Gris Chacal
Turkish = Gri Çakal
Japanese = Gurējakkaru
Chinese = Huīsè Cháiláng

I've also been entertaining odd ideas, like (since we know we're going to have a Werewolf release eventually, with the "re-publication" of Debased) perhaps in the Debased books Steve would be okay with a "white" Garou NPC, probably a Silver Fang or something, who could be our "White Wolf." Then we could use a signature Debased character as the "Black Dog..." These two would really probably only appear in the Debased book, but may be mentioned elsewhere, but maybe our "Grey Jackal" character runs afoul of these two NPCs?

Heh, what if we tried to do a storyline like they do in long-running TV-shows, where they reference real-life events in their stories? Like in Arrested Development when they tried to save the show? Or like in other shows where they make fun of their producers or something? Well, what if we had a story where the Grey Jackal has a grand plan or something, but he's some "new guy" that no one's ever heard of before, like us. And as Grey Jackal tries to enact his master plan, or whatever, the White Wolf's little bitch, the Black Dog, comes and gives Jackal shit about what he's doing (similar to how WW didn't even notice us, but the fans got really "worried" for a while). Maybe the White Wolf character doesn't even know about Grey Jackal's scheme, and never would care about, but Black Dog tries to get some brownie points by taking some initiative and opposing Grey Jackal?

In the above scenario, the Grey Jackal character would signify us and the (admittedly trivial) bullshit we've gone through, while the White Wolf character would obviously represent the aloof, Rank 6, almost "mythological" WW/CCP/Onyx Path/wtf-ever company, and Black Dog would represent the "average" fans, lol. It's not an astoundingly genius idea, no, but we would probably never run out of inspiration for it, and we could "say" alot by doing this, because it would be our secret "soapbox."

I also liked the reference to Anubis, which is actually our logo, too, btw. perhaps we could do something with that. What's Anubis up to in the CWoD? I bet it's not gonna lend itself to our usage very well....

Also, keep this in mind, our "red thread" as you call it (I've never heard that expression before), doesn't have to be an individual, either. It could also be an item--the Grey Jackal could be an artifact, or a jewel, or a painting, or even a poem. It could also be an event... like the rising of another, mysterious, unnamed Antedeluvian whose identity can't be determined (because they haven't revealed it)... this mysterious Ante could be anyone from [Ventrue] to Saulot to Set, as far as we are concerned, the reader can make their own determinations, all we deal with is the fact that it is happening and of course other NPCs want to either aide or prevent it... this Ante could himself be the Grey Jackal, as his allegiance and goals are unknown, and he preys and feeds upon the weakest first (picking off each enemy Ante/methuselah's foot-soldiers is more like it).

Actually, I really like the "Unknown Antedeluvian" idea... the Ante doesn't even have to actually rise, just the threat of it is enough t inspire motivation in a bunch of our NPCs...

Yeah, I like that... I'm gonna let that percolate for a bit.

Oh... and of course the Grey Jackal has a giant gray dong, he ain't no little punk bitch, yo! Recognise!
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Anda

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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeSun Jun 24, 2012 12:51 am

Gattison wrote:
...but we would probably never run out of inspiration for it, and we could "say" alot by doing this, because it would be our secret "soapbox."

Haha the idea is a bit crazy but I wouldn't mind it if we actually disguised it well enough and made it atleast look mature and dark Smile


Gattison wrote:
Also, keep this in mind, our "red thread" as you call it (I've never heard that expression before), doesn't have to be an individual, either. It could also be an item--the Grey Jackal could be an artifact, or a jewel, or a painting, or even a poem. It could also be an event...

... or a theme. Remember how the Jackal was used in the Bible as a moodsetter for desolation, loneliness and abandonement?
To qoute exactly from wikipedia: The jackal (likely the golden jackal, given its present range) is mentioned approximately 14 times in the Bible. It is frequently used as a literary device to illustrate desolation, loneliness and abandonement, with reference to its habit of living in the ruins of former cities and other areas abandoned by humans.
We could use these three themes as the backbone of our books just like White Wolf has used Goth Punk. Take my text about Congo for example, what does that portray if not these three themes. Wouldn't be hard to add some jackals in that text to increase it's feel.
And speaking about Congo, I wanted to make sure that Jackals lived there before I wrote the statement above, so I googled Jackal + Congo. Since I can't link here on the forum for another 7 days since Im a new member I can't link y'all, but google it yourself and click on the first thing that pops up. Smile

Regarding the Antedeluvian idea, I don't mind that at all either. To again make ties to Congo, if we use [Gangrel] it wouldn't be too far fetched that the earth that rejected the Xi Dundu could've been work of her. After all, many theories support that [Gangrel] is now part of the earth. What other power could actually curse a whole bloodline? I mean, that's what Ravnos did before he died. If we would use [Gangrel] we could have different parts in our books revealing more and more about this Antedeluvians awekening, starting with what happened in Congo. Far fetched? Maybe, still it was just something that popped up in my head.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeSun Jun 24, 2012 1:18 am

I actually think these are all pretty good ideas...

Perhaps we could use your idea for "Grey Jackal as a theme" to tie all the other ideas together...?

(Btw, I tried to look through the forum settings to figure out how to change the 7-day waiting period for you, because I don't see a need to enforce that yet, but... I failed. I'm not giving up yet, though....)

As for the Antediluvian idea, one of the main points I wanted to stress was that the metaplot-story wouldn't be about the Ante, it would instead be about the threat of one. I wanted to try and present it so that the Ante could literally be any of them, or a completely new one--we'll never reveal the truth, because we don't know, not for sure. We can each have our own opinions, and add details that reinforce our theories, but this Antediluvian (in fact, our whole metaplot) should be somewhat contradictory, just like the real one is. Meaning, you can add details to the Ante that justifies the theory that the Grey Jackal Ante is [Gangrel], but I could also add details that that same Ante is actually [Tzimisce].... What we both contribute can contradict each other, but not canon, because Ante's a hard creatures to figure out, so it could be the Tzim Ante posing as [Grangrel], or vice-versa, but only the reader should be able to determine that, and only after deciding to just go with their favorite theory. That's the idea I was pitching, anyway.

Regardless, though, I don't think any of these ideas are actually bad yet, so we should keep thinking about everything we discussed here so far.
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valismedsen

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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeMon Jun 25, 2012 3:35 am

Okay, so what I'm going to propose might deviate a little from the idea of a Grey Jackal character that is also a commentary on our own work.

The idea is to interconnect the books we'll be working on, right? Well, actually, my idea only works for Vampire.

The Grey Jackal is Caine's progeny, Enoch.

Enoch was killed when the Antediluvians revolted against their sires, in the Second City.

But by then Enoch was a vampire without a Beast. He had freed himself from it when he Embraced [Tzimisce].

His Beast became, or corrupted (if there's any difference) the spirit of the Lands Beyond the Forest. Enoch's Beast is Kupala.

But a vampire cannot be truly killed while he is incomplete, so Enoch survived his own destruction.

This is a metaplot point I devised for my games.

From this point on I'm trying to tie this with the Grey Jackal thing.

Grey sometimes is a manner of saying pale, as in deathly pallor.

So perhaps the Grey Jackal is dead. This brings us back to Anubis, who is a Jackal and rules death.

Lets think for an instant following some Wraith metaphysics. The Beast is the Shadow, so the Man is the Psyche.

It is possible that Enoch became a ghost-like entity, his Psyche surviving as a sort of Wraith.

Perhaps Enoch is Anubis, and he taught Osiris the Spell of Life that creates Mummies. (Now I don't know where I'm going anymore).

Okay, another connection, this time with the Baali.

The Baali siphon power from some entities known as the Children. They appear to be Lovecraftian beings, but paying close attention to the beginning of Baali history we can see that they had physical bodies, which were vulnerable to the Sun. (This is how the Baali learned the Children's names, they heard one of them die screaming its siblings names under the sunlight when they unearthed it by accident).

This means they are not Malfean (who exist deep in the Shadowlands), but more probably vampires.

Perhaps the mortals the Baali descend from killed one of the members of the Second Generation, and learned the true names of the other two.

It was sometime after this that an Antediluvian Embraced the Baali (probably Saulot).

Nergal, a Baali founder, sought to awaken one of the Children named Namtaru.

He uncovered Namtaru's body in Chorazin near the Sea of Galilee and brought it to Crete, where he built the Labyrinth around it, and tried desperately to awaken it. He failed horribly.

Namtaru might be one of the Second Generation.

The Antediluvian Ventrue is said to have been murdered. He is a child of Enoch, perhaps Enoch was not killed, but his child took his place, and Enoch still wanders Earth.

Perhaps Enoch is Namtaru.

If Kupala is Enoch's Beast, he must have a great influence over the Eldest Tzimisce. Vicissitude is said to have come from the Eldest's Beast, from its ephemeral nature. Perhaps Vicissitude as an infection is part of Kupala/Enoch Beast, a creature of great evil and malice.

This duality might mirror one of Enoch's progeny, Saulot. He is said to have done great goods, but also is responsible for great evils.

Setite lore says Saulot suffered from multiple personality. It's probably true. Saulot went to study with Kindred of the East, where he could have awoken his Beast to a state similar to a Kuei-Jin's P'o, or a Wraith's Shadow.

When Saulot's Psyche is in control, he is good healer Saulot. When his P'o is in control, he is the evil mastermind, a contender for the Demon Prince position.

A similar thing might have happened to Enoch. Kupala, his Beast, is not a mindless savage, but a cunning malicious being.

While Enoch's Psyche is a civilized man, the ruler that Caine once chose to Embrace.

Another connection, between Mithras and Haquim.

Mithras and the Assamite Antediluvian are said to be friends. Haquim visited Mithras shortly before his disappearance from Alamut's radar, in AD121.

Ur-Shulgi, a child of Haquim, has a striking resemblance to a figure from Baali legend, a child-like burned creature. Some non-canonical references link Ur-Shulgi directly with the Baali. The Mathuselah's enmity towards religion and his destruction of several historical records is indeed suspicious.

Perhaps Haquim suspected something was afoul in his child. Why would he seek Mithras?

Perhaps the Cult of Mithras harbors a secret that Haquim sought. Perhaps as a direct grandchild of Enoch, Mithras knows about his grandsire's secrets.

Mithras was diablerized by an Assamite. He survived, and for all purposed is now an Assamite.

You're still with me? I'm falling asleep. Will come back here later.








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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeTue Jun 26, 2012 3:55 pm

I'm with you, so far, so don't leave me hangin' bro...

What the hell happens next?!
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeTue Jun 26, 2012 11:59 pm

Next, I guess, is that if we get all on the same page and liking (some of) these ideas, I think the best way to present this as a metaplot is to show it in reverse. First, linking together all the disparate elements by implying a connection between them, like "there's some important secret hidden on Mithra's cult, which is not just a fount of blood for the Mathuselah" and "Character X believes that there's an important connection between Souleater, Kupala and the fact that the Eldest's Embrace was Enoch's desperate attempt to get rid of his Beast", and so on. All the plot lines can be linked by these idea, which is probably never going to be fully explained.

Also...

I'd always liked the idea of a pos-Gehenna scenario inspired by Requiem. In this scenario Gehenna happened with the weakening of the blood. With the (presumed) death of Caine vampires are no longer Cainites. But those that survive are still vampires, only slightly different. Those who survive are the ones who submit to one of 5 vampires leaders which arise during the desperate times of Gehenna. They establish new clans in their image and under their patronage by making other vampires drink their blood, which cures the weakening of the blood. This can be a possible future to be feared and struggled against, or ushered with open arms. Omens and prophecies can point to the wheels that put these events in motion.

Thus, the Requiem Ventrue are vampires who were chosen (or chose) to drink the blood of Enoch and accept him as a supreme leader, hidden somewhere. They identify themselves as rulers, emulating him.

Daeva are vampires selected by Zillah, and the Wife of Caine gave them all they needed to keep an hedonistic unlife - which she also favors for herself.

I like the idea that Requiem Gangrel and Nosferatu are Clans re-founded by the CWoD [Gangrel] and [Nosferatu] Antediluvians. Absimilard rid himself of Caine's curse of ugliness, but it only made his inner, spiritual monstrosity come to the fore - which he shares with his new clan. Ennoia was always considered a favorite to win Gehenna in many sources, with the whole becoming one with the earth. Her new clan are savages beyond anything.

Mekhet are those vampires who drank the blood of Lilith and share her taste for mysteries hidden in the dark and her vulnerability to light.

I just wanted to toss these ideas around.

This is all a big brainstorming (or a brain fart?).

If there's anything here we can actually use, great.

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Anda

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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeTue Jul 03, 2012 4:19 am

I've read these texts of your, Valis, probably 5 times now so I fully could understand them. They are a little bit all over the place but I really like the ideas. We gotta explore Enochs connection to Anubis though, otherwise it all falls flat. That is if we still want our red thread to be tied to the name Grey Jackal.
This is where I would suggest some ways to do that, but since I know too little about Mummies and Setite-Lore I can't really come with anything of value to say. Do you know what the Setites say about Anubis in their Lore? And what does Mummy say about Anubis? Not Mummy as in your mum, but you know the guys that can't die. However, if your mum actually do have anything of value to say about Anubis that we could use then feel free to share that as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeTue Jul 03, 2012 4:21 am

Anda wrote:
Not Mummy as in your mum, but you know the guys that can't die. However, if your mum actually do have anything of value to say about Anubis that we could use then feel free to share that as well.
lmao
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeWed Jul 18, 2012 12:39 am

Coming back to this topic because it has been on my mind...

I've decided that I don't think valis' idea about the Return of Enoch (the vampire, not the city) would be fitting for use as our underlying metaplot. No offense meant, because I actually have heard the idea (from valis) multiple times, and it sounds like a very well-thought-out theory, so I feel it deserves more space than the vague, background-only metaplot story we want to portray.

I think you (valis) should actually post the whole story, or everything you have worked out, or whatever you can in the Tales of the Grey Jackal section, so we can all think of a good way to use the idea... perhaps you'd be interested in building an Antediluvian Resourcebook around this idea, idk, lotta potential here, though

Please don't get the feeling that I'm trying to down-play your idea and end up using mine, but... lol I do think a generic, vague Methuselah/Antediluvian-Rising theme could make a good metaplot... until I hear another, better idea.

P.S. Keep in mind, the more developed and thorough an idea is, the less I'm going to want to agree to use it as a vague background story in our books, because I'll feel "all that work" should be used and presented. So, if we don't like any ideas presented so far, and you want to try and think of something, try to think of stuff that can easily remain poorly-defined, yet still be inspirational, and interesting enough to make us wanna use it for... however many books we make.
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Agathe De Lannuie

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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeFri Jul 27, 2012 7:06 pm

Just a quick note

I posted a Character (Agathe De Lannuie), I think it could be used in the metaplot without pb
I already linked his story to both Anubis and the Grey Jackal (It's just a vague link, it's nothing too important)

One of the thing that is important is the 2 character sheet that relate to different historical periode. I feel this aspect is important since it show Agathe is a power monger trying to become god like and pushing his magick beyond the vampiric limits. That's why I feel 2 sheets are important.

I think the concept could be extended to more than two sheet (to show the progress of her magickal research)and Agathe's research could be a pretext to show parts of the power/interest of the Grey Jackal in the wod. He could be related to decesased 2nd gen or something like that

I feel providing dots or even a partial history for the Grey Jackal would make it too concret
There's a idiom in french "to be known as the White Wolf" it means someone that has never been seen, people only heard of him. Maybe the Grey jackal could be this kind of character: People search of him like they search for the "Inconnu" and Golconda. They want the secrets he might hold over creation... If u go that way two books are quite good on this:
_The Giovanni Chronicles (Search for the Sargon Fragment: Tetragrammaton, Anexheton, Primematum)
_The Red Sign (Ex Libris Necro, Yellow Sign, Red Sign)

Both book could be great sources in order to plot something involving powerful sorcerers, the Black Hand, The Grey Jackal.

Btw: Percival the Archibishop of Guadalajara, the Lasombra of the Plot of the Red Sign would make a great Abyss Mystic
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeThu Aug 02, 2012 10:09 pm

Agathe De Lannuie wrote:
One of the thing that is important is the 2 character sheet that relate to different historical periode. I feel this aspect is important since it show Agathe is a power monger trying to become god like and pushing his magick beyond the vampiric limits. That's why I feel 2 sheets are important.

I think the concept could be extended to more than two sheet (to show the progress of her magickal research)and Agathe's research could be a pretext to show parts of the power/interest of the Grey Jackal in the wod. He could be related to decesased 2nd gen or something like that
Okay, I'm writing this before I have actually read your character, Agathe, but would you consider splitting the character up into different books? One CS from a particular time-period would appear in the Abyss Guide, and then in our next Vampire book, Agathe could probably also appear, but with a different CS and description reflecting a different time-period of his life?

Quote :
I feel providing dots or even a partial history for the Grey Jackal would make it too concret
There's a idiom in french "to be known as the White Wolf" it means someone that has never been seen, people only heard of him. Maybe the Grey jackal could be this kind of character: People search of him like they search for the "Inconnu" and Golconda. They want the secrets he might hold over creation... If u go that way two books are quite good on this:
_The Giovanni Chronicles (Search for the Sargon Fragment: Tetragrammaton, Anexheton, Primematum)
_The Red Sign (Ex Libris Necro, Yellow Sign, Red Sign)
That is the idea I had in mind for the Grey Jackal, but I assumed that it was a relatively "newer" legend, only having been discovered within the past century or two--essentially making the Grey ackal a new threat, but not exactly end-of-the-world/Gehenna-focused. (To me this does not mean the Grey Jackal is any weaker, in fact they're probably stronger, because they had the power to remain unnoticed until now.)

Quote :
Btw: Percival the Archibishop of Guadalajara, the Lasombra of the Plot of the Red Sign would make a great Abyss Mystic
Alright, I'll have to take a peek at him and see and I'll let ya know what I think.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeThu Aug 02, 2012 11:35 pm

Quote :
Okay, I'm writing this before I have actually read your character, Agathe, but would you consider splitting the character up into different books? One CS from a particular time-period would appear in the Abyss Guide, and then in our next Vampire book, Agathe could probably also appear, but with a different CS and description reflecting a different time-period of his life?

That was a bit the idea... Unveiling plots/events we want through an other's point of view, preferably someone with an unique point of view on the whole picture.
Makes me think of the rôle of the historian Beckett in the gehenna metaplot of WW. They made him the witness of gehenna and in the gehenna novel it was through him we knew of the old vampire (Caine in disguise) that was travelling with him.
We could do that through different characters but I feel it could be a bit too hard to keep track of the plot for the readers.

Quote :
That is the idea I had in mind for the Grey Jackal, but I assumed that it was a relatively "newer" legend, only having been discovered within the past century or two--essentially making the Grey ackal a new threat, but not exactly end-of-the-world/Gehenna-focused. (To me this does not mean the Grey Jackal is any weaker, in fact they're probably stronger, because they had the power to remain unnoticed until now.)

So he's old but unknown ?
Okay but could have it been known by an other name in an other time ? I liked the idea someone mentioned that it could have been linked (once upon a time in egypt) to Anubis. That doesn't mean he has to be actually Anubis, just that he had take that role/name. It would give depth to the caracter without saying much on him.
The only pb I see with this option is the link the Grey Jackal could have with the Silent Strider...
On the other hand there is a bloodline of the Gangrel with a werwolf protean shape. I'll check if their background story in cairo by night is open enough to allow for some rewriting.

It's just a vague idea so feel free to stop me scratch




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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeMon Aug 13, 2012 8:19 pm

So, are we agreeing on this for how our metaplot will work?

We all just write about whatever plots we already have going, or start whatever new ones we want, BUT...

there should be one completely vague storyline that we reference every now and then that we never go into detail about.

My problem is this, let's say we choose to use valis' idea about Enoch the 2nd Gen returning via Vicissitude and all that. How would we go about revealing/telling that storyline, without sort of railroading all other sub-plots we come up with for individual books toward the metaplot's direction? In order to tell the Return of Enoch the Methuselah story properly, we would have to make the metaplot more overt and prevalent than a background/central metaplot is supposed to be.

I mean don't get me wrong, if there's a way to drop little hints from the story here and there, and that would be enough to propel the story along properly, then I actually am starting to like the Enoch idea, kinda, but it just feels like the whole story has so much detail that it would be hard to treat it as a loose, vague, guiding, optional, non-invasive element to a Story.

Honestly, I feel like the metaplot should really be some kind of shallow, "Easter Egg" type thing, that we really don't put a great deal of thought into, because we have decided to leave it purposely vague. On the other hand, maybe you non-me's are expecting different things from the presentation of our metaplot.

Why don't we start commenting on that to get the ball rolling again.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeWed Oct 03, 2012 2:01 am

Here's another thread we could use in our metaplot:

After all copies of the Leges Abyssi were apparently destroyed, a copy of the original version appeared and then went missing. Maybe the book, Leges abyssi, could be involved in our metaplot?
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeFri Oct 05, 2012 2:51 am

I got the perfect metaplot idea.

I've been thinking about the best way to incorporate Abyss Mysticism into a metaplot without it seeming forced because we're all "big Abyss geeks." So with that in mind, I came up with this:

What if our metaplot was some character (maybe a Tal'Mahe'Ra member, maybe not...) was trying to use Abyss Mysticism for some specific purpose--but we of course don't know why, or for what reason. That way we could never really have that plotline go anywhere in this book, but in subsequent books we can define the threat or necessity more, and each time we reveal that stuff, we incorporate something from the book it appears in.

Some good candidates for this NPC would be Agathe de Lannuie, Byrsa or something involving the Leges Abyssi. But it could also involve The Four Allies and their quest (or maybe just Cardinal Reyes or Vescovo Giovanni?)

Or we make up a true sig character and only discuss them in "Story-segments" after chapters and in the intro and stuff...
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeSat Oct 06, 2012 10:09 pm

I love this idea and I agree it's better to give a metaplot that go a bit further than just Abyss mysticism.

Something like this was in my mind:
I was thinking that Byrsa could be looking for insight into the process of creation of a realm in the Umbra for the Tal'Mahe'Ra. Iirc Danielplanman was trying to move Enoch into the Abyss (if this idea is still on). Agathe is the perfect candidate to give some knowledge of this since she did it for the Batini and then for herself & she's an expert on the relation between the Umbra and the Abyss.
In return she could have the opportunity to learn some unique occult knowledge from the Tal (Temporis, Vitreous path or even some knowledge about the last ritual she's researching the ritual of the Red Sign, which is designed to give back a soul/avatar to a vampire).

That would give me the opportunity to give an update on her stats. While on the "realm of darkness book" the stat would represent the last time she was seen by the Camarilla/Sabbat on earth. The Tal's book would give her the opportunity to be "seen" but only among the most hidden vampire... Justifying the fact that no one have known her since Egypte... Except Tal'Mahe'Ra (and then leaving it open for the ST to decide if she managed to reach her goal of metamophosis)

What do you think about that ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeSun Oct 07, 2012 4:28 pm

I like it, but let me make this point, too. Byrsa's plotline is not Abyss-Mystic-centric, but it is pretty much self-contained. In fact, she's already dead in modern day for around 300-400 years iirc. Agathe's plotline is also not Abyss-Mystic-centric, but I think it is moreso than Byrsa's, which gives Agathe a greater connection to just this book.

I propose to you that we use the general metaplot you came up with, but we also incorporate our "stat-less" sig character, Cinero Draconum. (Quick Note: I went back to Google-translate to double check the spelling and discovered that while "Cinero Draconum" means "Grey Jackal," "Griseo Draconum" means "THE Grey Jackal." So we can choose his first name, Cinereo or Griseo...)

How about we consider Byrsa's and Agathe's plotlines as "continuing" plotlines (meaning they can be revisited in later books), but they are not "meta"-plotlines. Cinereo/Griseo Draconum could be a character that we don't reveal stats on in any book until we finally make our own "Children of..." book (I propose "[url=Children of the Grey Jackal]https://greyjackal.forumotion.com/t21-children-of-the-grey-jackal[/url]," of course, =) ). That way we don't define anything about our mysterious metaplot/sig character until we need to, and then when we have some details on him we can finally make a write-up for him, but of course we won't divulge everything about them, and leave the audience "wanting more," as they say.

This way we can use the plotlines started by Agathe and Byrsa, but instead of being the "main-stage," they are instead connected to what Cinero/Griseo does. For instance: I don't think we should give much away at all about Cinereo/Griseo just yet, so I would say that we do NOT (at this point) present this NPC as someone who was manipulating either Byrsa or Agathe (although such could be revealed later... just not right now). What if Cinero is just simply mentioned as being a student of BOTH Byrsa and Agathe--and then maybe reveal in one of the Fiction-segments that he is (maybe) not truly there to studying their powers, but to study actual elder/methuselah vampires, or something like that? And then that would basically be it for metaplot for this book, unless we wanted to write some non-revealing fluff to flesh out his role, but his goals.

Your plan, Agathe, could still be done according to the schedule you outlined above, but we would have a new character that we ALL would think about "what's this guy doing, and why?"
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeFri Oct 12, 2012 4:01 am

So, I got all inspired today to start rewriting what I had written already for the prologue. I haven't finished the story yet, but this is where I'm at so far--tell me what you think please. btw, when finished I imagine it will go another couple pages or more.

A Jackal's Shadow:

* Special Note: Kül Renkli Çakal is Turkish for Grey Jackal. =)

EDIT: Or maybe it could actually end there... that way I could probably write another three or four pages for an epilogue (unless of course somebody else is willing to give it a shot). =)

Also, while I'm here, let me explain a bit about the above passages. The first, in 1813 is supposed to serve simply as an example of the actions of an Obtenebrous master. However, since I'm proposing Kül Renkli as our sig character, I've basically declared that yes, he does have Obtenebration, obviously, but technically I have not aligned him with any specific clan or bloodline (except perhaps to say that he is not Brujah), nor even any sect. What's more, I didn't even label him specifically as an Abyss mystic. (Note: I MEANT to search for events in 1893, not 1813, but my fingers got confused and by the time I realized it, I ended up saying, "eh, it's close enough to the Victorian Age time-frame that it won't matter to us in the Modern Nights, whatever..." *too lazy to change the story*) You could also look at this story from the driver's perspective, and just get a good dose of fear of the dark.
The second part, in 2012, still doesn't label Kül Renkli as a Lasombra or anything, but does provide an example of two things: 1) a) how a kindred occultist could lose their occult library, and 1) b) how that kindred might react, and 2) what it is like for a kindred seeking out rare occult tomes, such as the Leges Abyssi.
This way, even though we may not specify Kül Renkli as an actual mystic, we do know that he is seeking out Abyssal lore for some reason (of which there cannot be too many, actually), so he could classify as a "student."
Also, we now have multiple options for his next appearance. If he appears in the Tal'Mahe'Ra book, he could either be troublesome member of that sect, who uses it to seek out not only Abyssal lore, but a multitude of obscure things, OR, he could turn out to be "working for" Byrsa's Alternate Identity that hunts down Abyss mystics (I forget her name atm, sorry), but only in exchange for some other obscure clue to his goals, like turning in a list of names of Abyss mystics in exchange for a vial of some specific methuselah's blood. (That second idea is the one I prefer, to be honest, although the specifics of it are open to debate--it doesn't have to be a vial of old red, red kroovy).

Finally, if I do write more, what about writing another piece in between 1813 and 2012? Like maybe actually one during the Victorian Age? idk, lol, let me know =)
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeSun Oct 14, 2012 11:02 pm

Really nicely written Josh, I enjoyed that! I especially liked the first part where we are in the past. You describe the scene very well so I felt like I was in a Dracula movie. Smile When I read it, I ofc had The Grey Jackal in the back of my mind, and I must say - I assumed that it was the wealthy man who was him, not the shadowy figure.
The 2nd part is very cool too, what I react to though is that I don't really see any link between the two texts. It feels are two completely different stories. Is there any way you can tie them together?
Other than that, awesome! And I dont think you need to write much more than that, unless you really feel like it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeMon Oct 15, 2012 3:49 am

Thanks Sam. Always glad to hear good stuff, lol. =)

First of all, you're right about the wealthy-looking man. He is the important figure in that scene, and the "dark figure" as merely his Nigh Shade or Hungry Shade (so it could be an Obtenebrous power OR an Abyss mystic power, technically). The mortal driver might become a retainer or something but is mostly unimportant.

As for connecting the two, there is the date, which is literally just shy of 200 years later. Kul Renkli mentions being away from home when his property is taken over, so the scene in 1813 is supposed to be when he finds out about it, and the 2012 scene is supposed to be the "resolution"--meaning he has made little progress, and it has consumed his unlife. I could describe Kul Renkli as "average height and build, with features that would be described as either plain or ugly" and "well-dressed." That would connect the "wealthy-looking man" and Kul Renkli with an all-too-obvious physical description. Also, I do intend to write more on this storyline, but if you think this is fine as it is, then I would write an Epilogue for the Guide, instead of extending the Prologue, see what I mean? I might even try to come with a short piece to put in the middle of the book, as an intermission sort of thing, as well, depending on how the writing goes.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grey Jackal   The Grey Jackal Icon_minitimeMon Oct 15, 2012 9:58 am

Ah I see, makes sense Smile Yes, I'm looking foward to read some more Smile
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